A discussion how to improve GMR, a reward system, more info, and other things

[The_J]

Thank you.

The discussion starts from post #563 to #613

Except: #564, 565, 567, 568, 569, 571, 572, 576, 577, 593, 597

Also #611 seems to be a good opening post.

-> Moderator Action: Moved.
In case I forgot something, something needs to be moved back, thread name has to be changed, or whatever else, then just hit the report button (the

) on the corresponding post.

Not sure if I want to move the last post by m4stermel to the beginning, that might look somehow strange. I guess a link in the OP which says "current status see here" to this post might also do it.

Depending on how long this organizational subdiscussion with moving stuff around will go on, I might maybe delete it later, so that it doesn't disturb the thread.

 

[Atlas627]

Thanks J!

m4stermel, I think you said exactly the same thing I was thinking. The points system is a way to encourage fun (and perhaps discourage ruining others fun) but should not be the system used to identify good players from bad. I think EEE_boy was saying this as well, that the point system should not be used as a label.

 

[Islandia]

If we are going with an experience point system, I would recommend giving a certain number of points for winning a game x number of players as well as a smaller number of points for surviving until game completion. I haven't actually finished one yet so I don't know if there is some way for GMR to track that the game was won in order not to penalize people for surrendering after the game is already over.

 

[Regul]

1. Provide a reward system that directly adds value to GMR and enhances the
3. Provide information on players, in an effort to easily tell what kind of GMR

Also, before all of this awesomeness hits the pipe there are a couple minor enhancements we'll be releasing. First the ability to specify the timezone you're playing in which will allow the system to automatically assist the host in creating the optimal player ordering. And second the ability for a game host to list their in-progress game in the public "Game Browser" page, enabling any other player to see it and join it, replacing an existing AI. Look for these changes to roll out in the next week or so.

First of all, thx for the proposed enhancements. Specifying the timezone would be helpfull, but more enhancement will come when one could post his allready running game to get replacements. How you make sure, that a player don't quit and re-joins a game as other empire? I'd vote to give the host authority to accept/reject replacements.

As for #1 i'd say players should not be punished in any form. Better think about a positive system to reward them for staying in games and do their turns the right way. Like the reward system Steam uses for Civ5. In a positive frame the players will go for the next reward and have fun with it. How about getting the right to host a game only with a given ammount of positive rewards? Same as to be a replacement player only with a positive reward. The easier this system will be, the more it will get accepted. I want to play and have fun, not spending hours for learning the rules of GMR.

As for #2...did you think about the Steam rules with this? If i remember right, in Steam i could block out anybody from viewing my informations or specify who could see them. As GMR is setting up on a Steam account you should honor this. If you provide information about a player, you have to be sure about the personal allowance then i guess. Somewhat like to post these facts in the GMR rules every player has to accept before joining. In private i like statistics and think this is a good new feature, but some regions in our world have strict laws concerning personal informations. Yea, don't want to start a discussion about, but it's better to think about this issue.

Can't wait for next week...

 

[EEE_BOY]

but more enhancement will come when one could post his allready running game to get replacements.

For looking for sub or new players, I proposed in
this post to enable host to see a list of Steam ID with playing statistics, so the host can send invitation to players who are opted in displaying ID and statistics, and actively looking for new games or replacement.

As for #1 i'd say players should not be punished in any form.

GMR admin has agreed on this, so no points will be deducted.

If you provide information about a player, you have to be sure about the personal allowance then i guess......In private i like statistics and think this is a good new feature, but some regions in our world have strict laws concerning personal informations.

I think you got a very valid point about providing too much information.

Initially I thought implementing too many statistics will put burden on GMR admins.

Now I think about it, players should be able to opt out displaying global statistics to other players.

Therefore, only if players are actively seeking new games or seeking to replace dropped player in a running game, the player can opt in displaying Steam ID and statistics, so the global statistics can be viewed by others, and the host can see a list of Steam ID as I proposed in the linked post above. If players are not looking for new games or wish not to be disturbed, they can opt out thus hiding all statistics (or perhaps tick boxes to enable specific statistics to be displayed).

 

[Nargluj]

A small thought regarding setting up your time zone for the optimal turn order;
Instead of using time zones, I believe it would be better if the users would choose something like a "time window", where they normally would do their turns.

Some people might be up early in the morning and do their turns before work, or maybe late at night when they come home from working during the evening. Then there's those with irregular time schedules... ....no good thoughts on that though.

Perhaps "time windows" rather than "time window"?

 

[Gul]

A small thought regarding setting up your time zone for the optimal turn order;
Instead of using time zones, I believe it would be better if the users would choose something like a "time window", where they normally would do their turns.

Some people might be up early in the morning and do their turns before work, or maybe late at night when they come home from working during the evening. Then there's those with irregular time schedules... ....no good thoughts on that though.

Perhaps "time windows" rather than "time window"?

totally agree with this. It really depends on if your trying to make a one turn per day game or have everyone in the same time zone to try for multi turns per day. time windows seems more useful for the one turn per day games

 

[Gul]

i would also like to see a game based vacation mode or "Got nothing to do on my game so I trust AI to click the end turn button for a number of turns mode"
It could speed the games up considerably. With the option of not allowing it on some games as some people may not want to play with people using it

 

[BlueCollar]

If we are going with an experience point system, I would recommend giving a certain number of points for winning a game x number of players as well as a smaller number of points for surviving until game completion. I haven't actually finished one yet so I don't know if there is some way for GMR to track that the game was won in order not to penalize people for surrendering after the game is already over.

I dont know about this. I think Tazzik, Tabarnak, and Genjikhan would deserve as many experience points as the rest of us in the Speed game. Im not against a ranking system for who the good players are. I just dont want it mixed with the system for dependable players.

 

[Islandia]

I dont know about this. I think Tazzik, Tabarnak, and Genjikhan would deserve as many experience points as the rest of us in the Speed game. Im not against a ranking system for who the good players are. I just dont want it mixed with the system for dependable players.

I'm not particularly keen on a ranking system per se, since the games take so long anyway it is for fun. No one wants to wait a year or two to see how they stack up! What I really thought was that since it's a point reward system, and not really there to weed out undependable players (that would be just pure statistics tracking), there should be many ways to get points: taking turns, winning games, surviving until the end, playing a one city challenge when everyone else is not so constrained, donating to GMR, losing your capitol but taking someone else's and playing from there. All just some ideas to get started.

 

[m4stermel]

A small thought regarding setting up your time zone for the optimal turn order;
Instead of using time zones, I believe it would be better if the users would choose something like a "time window", where they normally would do their turns.

Some people might be up early in the morning and do their turns before work, or maybe late at night when they come home from working during the evening. Then there's those with irregular time schedules... ....no good thoughts on that though.

Perhaps "time windows" rather than "time window"?

This is a really good idea, and potentially much more effective than just tracking a player's time-zone. I'll talk to Brian about it and see what we can do

 

[m4stermel]

there should be many ways to get points: taking turns, winning games, surviving until the end, playing a one city challenge when everyone else is not so constrained, donating to GMR, losing your capitol but taking someone else's and playing from there. All just some ideas to get started.

It would be really cool if we could take into account actual in-game accomplishments (such as winning or playing a certain way) in our point system but I'm afraid that's just not within our ability. There's currently no way for us to discern from a save file who (if anyone) has won, or what any given player has done in the game. The only thing we can detect is whether they've taken their turn or not.

We could potentially implement a voting system that would allow players in a game by consensus to indicate who won, but that sort of thing is riddled with potential problems and I don't think we could realistically go there.

 

[Onan]

This is a really good idea, and potentially much more effective than just tracking a player's time-zone. I'll talk to Brian about it and see what we can do

Remember my old suggestion? Time zone and typical playtime. Great minds think alike.

 

[m4stermel]

Speaking on GMR reporting game statistics for players I don't think there's really any privacy concerns there. We won't be reporting personal information such as location, email address, or anything else. All we'll effectively share is statistics concerning how many games and turns you play. Even Steam shares statistics on what games you play and how much you play them by default.

If the players want it we'll definitely allow for some statistics to be kept private, but I fail to see how that's a privacy concern.

 

[Onan]

I haven't read all the above. Busy times.

GMR stats hosts can use = good
Bells and whistles as player rewards to get you guys more money = great
Any kind of ranking system = unnecessary for GMR, and probably counter productive. (bad!). With the exception of a rewards system for donors, which I guess I count as bells and whistles.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Agree on not having ranking system (edit: for each game. ie. win or defeat)

When game is closer to the end, fewer players remain, turns tend to be faster, so points for taking turns are collected faster, winner will collect all points potentially, and players who choose to stay can also benefit from faster turns.

But, the points per turn should also scale down when players are dropping.

 

[Atlas627]

You could rank players based off of their reward score. As in tell them they are whatever percentage, to encourage getting more points (without having to create more bell and whistle rewards!)