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a good defense is the best offense

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by lutzj, Mar 14, 2006.

?

War Style?

  1. Early War

    36 vote(s)
    31.9%
  2. Build up forces, then War

    61 vote(s)
    54.0%
  3. No war for me, thanks!

    16 vote(s)
    14.2%
  1. lutzj

    lutzj The Last Thing You See

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    once the strongest spear was thrown at the strongest sheild. the spear bounced off and broke (stupid spear) the spear decomposed, and the head was found years later and sold for $4,000 to a museum
    (the shield was a priceless artifact in the same museum)
     
  2. lutzj

    lutzj The Last Thing You See

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    _______bump________
     
  3. DementedAvenger

    DementedAvenger Prince

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    I think you've got that backwards - the best defense is a good offense.
     
  4. lutzj

    lutzj The Last Thing You See

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    same thing
     
  5. pub hero

    pub hero Chieftain

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    No, no it's not the same thing.
     
  6. lutzj

    lutzj The Last Thing You See

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    i don't care, its like the same thing
     
  7. DementedAvenger

    DementedAvenger Prince

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    No it's not. The best defense has no bearing at all on offense. If you leave your units sitting in your cities, you won't have any offense at all.

    If you keep your opponents on their heels by attacking them all the time, you wont' have to worry so much about defense because your opponents will have their hands full trying to survive. That's what peopel mean when they say the best defense is a good offense.
     
  8. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    Hardly. They're polar opposites.

    "The best defense is a good offense" this means killing everyone before they have a chance to kill you.

    "The best offense is a good defense" I've never heard anyone actually use this as a cliche, but it would mean that you never let anyone take it to you and you wear them down (I think).

    NOT the same.
     
  9. jpowers

    jpowers Emperor

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    The best offense is a good defense is the strategy the US used to 'win' the Cold War without ever sending a troop onto Soviet soil. By convincing the Russians that they had to keep up in the nuclear arms race - always characterized by both sides as defense against the other's first-strike capabilities - the US gutted their economy and ability to remain a coherent government. It's quite a subtle strategy, and not really applicable to Civ at the moment. Also see the Detroit Pistons of the late '80's - in that case, the saying could have been 'the best way to make a lousy offense effective is with a good defense.'
     
  10. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    The best offense is a good defense is the strategy the russians always used :
    letting ennemy troops die from bad supply lines, cold, ... in russian soil before counterattacking.
    In CIV it's quite a working strategy if you can beat down the usual 2 big stacks sent by an AI, you can counterattack with very good results.
     
  11. Betjeman

    Betjeman Chieftain

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    In sport, the cliche is used a fair amount (usually by teams that play unexciting, play that stifles the opponent's creativity).

    A goal not scored by the opposition is equal to a goal scored by you.
     
  12. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    Congratulations! This is, in fact, THE MOST CHILDISH POST TODAY!! :goodjob:
     
  13. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Wanted to take part in the poll but what year do we consider an early war? 3000bc? 2000bc? 1000bc? 1ad?

    Had to ask :)
     
  14. J.Rose

    J.Rose Prince

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    Fetch you never heard of "Da Bears"? They been selling that crap for years and years.
     
  15. GiantRaven

    GiantRaven Prince

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    Isn't it spelled Defence :confused:

    Or is it spelled differently in (i'm assuming) America?
     
  16. maltz

    maltz King

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    > a good defense is the best offense

    I thought it is always the other way around: "a good offense is the best defense". :) In single-player games, you have to go early war in Immortal and Deity.

    However, in multiplayer games, if you advance too much early, people will be scared, and cooperate and take youd own first. Therefore, it is not a bad idea to stay defensive and make some good friends.
     
  17. Chinetter

    Chinetter Chieftain

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    Actually the concept of "a good defense is the best offense" seems quite applicable to Civ, a couple of different ways:

    -- since the game includes ways to win which are not military, one possible path is being impenetrable enough militarily to buy the time needed to carry out a cultural or diplomatic victory, or simply a time victory (highest game score). Of course not all games played include all those victory options, but if it does then they are a type of "offense."

    -- even in games that don't include cultural/diplomatic/time victory options, the "cottage spam" approach is ultimately a type of "good defense becoming the best offense" military strategy. The idea is to spam cities/cottages and do certain other things which leave you quite vulnerable for a good while, but at some point abruptly provide you with the means to purchase a lot of the biggest/nastiest armaments and go crush the other civs. The hard part is surviving intact long enough to do this, and against experienced human players it really requires having decent defenses all along. (The costs of which in turn make carrying out the strategy a bit more difficult.) So this strategy is really, "a good defense buys you enough time to suddenly come roaring out with an overwhelming offense."

    -- and of course the traditional version that applies to any decently-balanced strategy game is to lure opponents into exhausting themselves pounding without success against your defenses, and then counterattack. I lost a 3-way team game online like this just the other day: my teammates and I concluded that we should attempt to wipe out one of the other teams; we threw everything we had at them and did some damage but failed to kill them; having weathered the storm they came back at us with more/better units than we could hold off with our temporarily-depleted military. (And the third team was smart enough to see their opportunity, and ended up winning, the vultures!)
     
  18. Nestorius

    Nestorius Prince

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    I have a wussy emotional problem declaring war on my AI rivals...so I usually wait for them to come to me. Thus, I use the Hedgehog strategy of trying to keep my forces equal and counter to them. If they have lots of horses, I use spearmen, etc...

    So I ascribe to your philosophy, although I'm not sure its the best. But when I do try an offensive game, I usually fall too far behind in tech.
     
  19. Mr. Civtastic

    Mr. Civtastic Prince

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    I prefer to say it like this...if you want peace, prepare for war.

    And then wipe out your enemies. No enemies alive = peace by default.
     
  20. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    I forgot about M.A.D. Good point.
     

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