AI has a strange way to choose this goverment.Before Fascism,Communism played the same role,when a civ enters a war after some turns it changes it's goverment to Fascism.But this isn't exaclty correct,i mean it doesn't mean that every nation under Democracy,Republic or whatever has to become a Fascist nation when war is declared,people react to war depending on what caused it.In the game thow Fascism isn't the choise of AI for specific periods of time or strategic achievements,but it uses it each and every time that war lasts for a longer period.I would like to see AI uses the diferent goverments depending on it's strategy and not as an equation of a program.
A.I & Fascism
- Thread starter kokoras
- Start date
nmcul
I have missles
I'm with you! It's pretty ridiculous to see all the AIs in the world in the same lockstep (in more ways than one). Although the fact that their production, culture, and population all take a sudden nosedive is useful, the situation is pretty ridiculous. An AI with lots of captured cities should prefer Communism over Fascism, while one that builds lots of culture and has a relatively small empire should even consider Monarchy.
What also burns my whatever is the fact that whenever the AI is not at war, it is unfailingly in Democracy. If you look around the world today, while most of the first world is democratic, diverse forms of government still exist, from the PR China's capitalistic communism to the military governments of Africa, there's still quite a bit of modern autocracy. The worst part, however, is IMO the fact that they all switch to Democracy as soon as they get it, which is usually the late Middle Ages. While the USA was in this government form at about the equivilant time, it certainly was the exception, not the rule. France dabbled in democratic government, but really didn't get it down until well into the Industrial Age. The Industrial Age would probably be a better time for the move into Democracy in general, perhaps by tinkering with its stats so that it only is profitable after industrialization. As it is now, we have democracies that are training Knights. That doesn't even make sense!
What also burns my whatever is the fact that whenever the AI is not at war, it is unfailingly in Democracy. If you look around the world today, while most of the first world is democratic, diverse forms of government still exist, from the PR China's capitalistic communism to the military governments of Africa, there's still quite a bit of modern autocracy. The worst part, however, is IMO the fact that they all switch to Democracy as soon as they get it, which is usually the late Middle Ages. While the USA was in this government form at about the equivilant time, it certainly was the exception, not the rule. France dabbled in democratic government, but really didn't get it down until well into the Industrial Age. The Industrial Age would probably be a better time for the move into Democracy in general, perhaps by tinkering with its stats so that it only is profitable after industrialization. As it is now, we have democracies that are training Knights. That doesn't even make sense!
I don't think we should always try to compare Civ3 Game to the real life...
It is as far from real life as the furthest galaxies away.
Civilization is a very abstract game and was designed primarily for fun and not for learning history or political economics. Although, once someone starts playing Civilization it might sparkle interest of that person to the real history of human society, political systems, economy etc....
So it is really should be the other way around in terms of learning something.
Just play and have fun and don't try to compare Civ with real life, because those conversations won't go anywhere, it's just a game...
It is as far from real life as the furthest galaxies away.
Civilization is a very abstract game and was designed primarily for fun and not for learning history or political economics. Although, once someone starts playing Civilization it might sparkle interest of that person to the real history of human society, political systems, economy etc....
So it is really should be the other way around in terms of learning something.
Just play and have fun and don't try to compare Civ with real life, because those conversations won't go anywhere, it's just a game...
Uncle Sam
Educated Redneck
Yeah, it is really lame that late game, the AI only has 2 government types: Democracy and Fascism, and unfailingly switches everytime they go to war and everytime they make peace. It's kind of boring, really.
What i said does not have to do with real life but with the game.AI sould choose the type of goverment depending on the victory that want's to achieve.Now the types of goverment used by AI are (as Uncle Sam said corectly) only Democracy and Fascism.But in this way we don't have a plurality of different strategies from AI.Changing from Democracy to Fascism and the oposite doesn't offer the chance to realise which AI nation is more aggresive or more peace loving.That sould be the porpose of the goverments,to demostrate the aggresivenes or the strategy followed by AI.
Reprisal
Warlord
Quick Question: How do you find out what governments the AIs are using? It doesn't appear to be on the F4 screen, so is it somewhere else?
To be honest, they messed up a lot in C3C. Republic became even stronger with unit support. Communism rockz. Facism is way to go for the AI -> the way of self-destruction, and is its preferred wartime government. Feudalism is a rather strange gov, but well... Agricultural is one of the inherently most powerful traits and so on... I always thought they would learn as the game evolves, but changing the programming team an so on ... now we have even to fear for the final patch. Seems as if 1.22 is the end. 
If you want the AI to always choose Communism instead of Fascism, every time, this is fairly easy to accomplish :
go into the editor and:
1. Lower Fascism corruption from Nuisence to Problematic.
2. Make Fascism the 'shunned' government of every civ.
The Republic to Demo issue can also be addressed by editor changes, but the changes would be considered to drastic by most players.
Ision
go into the editor and:
1. Lower Fascism corruption from Nuisence to Problematic.
2. Make Fascism the 'shunned' government of every civ.
The Republic to Demo issue can also be addressed by editor changes, but the changes would be considered to drastic by most players.
Ision
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
1) Of course, that makes Fascism even worse for human player (making Communism even more better).
2) And kills AI diversity
P.S.
These are the tweaks from AU mod.
Right?
2) And kills AI diversity
P.S.
These are the tweaks from AU mod.
Right?
Pfeffersack
Deity
Partly, additional in the AU mod the SHQ is moved from communism to fascism.
"While the USA was in this government form at about the equivilant time, it certainly was the exception, not the rule."
britain was the first official (maybe not actual) democracy in the world and has been since then, so america was NOT the exception. Also although im not sure i doubt they had universal suffrage (condition of a democracy) until reletively recently, i dunno when blacks/women got the vote, but it definately wasnt in the middle ages. I also believe that some excommon wealth countries (new zealand etc.) had universal suffrage before america and then britain followed possibly also before america.
maybe somebody could check that stuff?
this does highlight the fact that in civ everyone is democratic by the end of the middle ages which is un realistic though.
britain was the first official (maybe not actual) democracy in the world and has been since then, so america was NOT the exception. Also although im not sure i doubt they had universal suffrage (condition of a democracy) until reletively recently, i dunno when blacks/women got the vote, but it definately wasnt in the middle ages. I also believe that some excommon wealth countries (new zealand etc.) had universal suffrage before america and then britain followed possibly also before america.
maybe somebody could check that stuff?
this does highlight the fact that in civ everyone is democratic by the end of the middle ages which is un realistic though.
Not exactly teh mo13,Democracy was founded in greece,Athens was the first place ever (5 century bc) where every citizent had the right to participate in the goverment of the state.It was developed under Pericle,but before him Solone and Clistenes had made all the changes necessary so that every citizen could be part of the goverment.The Athenians could vote and decide on every issue of the state.
Our curent Democracy is a virtual Democracy where we can vote for the candidates but we don't have the right to decide what we desire,the politicians decide without taking in considaration the peoples will,thing that didn't hapen in the Athenian Democracy of the 5 century bc.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Of course, greek city states were very small so such system could work.
And by "every citizen" means only men, no women, slaves or non-greeks.
And by "every citizen" means only men, no women, slaves or non-greeks.
player1 fanatic said:
Paradoxical the Democracy was based on the distinction betwen freedom and slavery,unfortunately the human being from the very first day of his existance tryed to rule other humans,slavery until today is an issue that exist in many different places or in different ways.Women in Ancient Greece didn't have the right neither to watch the Olympic games,immagine!However it is not always that easy to achieve the perfection from the first day,from then to now (over 2500 years) and still we find ourself facing problems of the past.
I don't agree thow that the small size of the cities was the factor that created this type of goverment,comunication today is easier than ever,so the instruments exist,the will from the part of those who rule is missing.
King PJ
Warlord
Personally, I really don't believe America is a true Democracy. The USA is more of a glorified Republic than anything else. Imagine though if we were a real democracy? The people could vote on every major issue, like whether we go to war or not. Just a thought...
Uncle Sam
Educated Redneck
King PJ said:
No country could ever function if the people voted on everything, especially things as important as wars. It would fall apart in years if not months.
![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/offtopic.gif "Offtopic [offtopic]")
Ok, everyone (myself included now) is getting severely sidetracked, bring it to OT if you want to discuss it further.
