A lake map question

[Lemon Merchant]

I have been dying to try out a rush in one of my games, and so far every game I have started recently, I wound up being on my own continent. OK, fine, but I really want to win earlier.
I have never won a game on a lakes map. I get wiped out early as a rule, even at Warlord, where I usually win. So my next game will be a lake map, Noble, Standard world, and I'm going to try a rush.
So my question is: Is the strategy for lakes the same as a pangea map?

Any advice would be most welcome.

 

[Shm0]

yes

it is

 

[mboettcher]

Well, Plan for some more rapid vertical growth early and rush a little bit later with even more troops to maintain the necessary speed. You need a lot of transports to move your armies fast enough and this requires a bit of a stronger economy

 

[Kesshi]

Lemon Merchant,

Yes and no. A navy is more important in a water heavy map. You still need the right mix of units to properly assault someone, however you also need naval units to transport and protect your transports.

Also, multiple continent maps make wonders function differently. For example, in a Panagea map, the Statue of Liberty will affect virtually every city you can plop down. However The Great Lighthouse will affect a very small percentage of cities. Where as on a multiple contintent map the opposite is true.

You have to think a little differently to fight wars and defend your empire on a water map vs a land map, but the basics remain the same.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to try it at Warlord, though. I think it will be easier to work out the mechanics at a lower level, 'cause I'm sure I'll make mistakes.

 

[Jimmyballz]

I've been playing Lakes a lot lately as Tectonics is my favorite now...

With Lakes, I've been making many more Scouts/Explorers than ever before. There seems to be way more Huts for the taking, and ususally a couple of techs are grabbed. It also seems that the other civs expand slower, but it could be just in my past few games.

Been playing Raging Barbs lately too, so I prioritize the Great Wall & Oracle to get way ahead (getting way ahead on Warlord difficulty that is)

 

[Hammurbabble]

You might also try Hemispheres. I've never gotten an isolated start yet on a Hemispheres map. I'm not completely certain, but I don't think it's possible.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Question:

Can you build harbors for sufficiently large lakes? Because honestly, if you can, you have instant farms for EVERY SINGLE LAKE TILE, that give more commerce than usual. It's extremely easy to get cities going with that - whip a granary/lighthouse and you instantly have 4+ tiles that are better than farms? Sign me up.

I know it works on other maps where you can get a coastal city with access to a lake, but usually the lakes themselves are too small - I remember way back in the day that I read somewhere that a big enough lake allows a lighthouse though?

 

[Kesshi]

Question:

Can you build harbors for sufficiently large lakes? Because honestly, if you can, you have instant farms for EVERY SINGLE LAKE TILE, that give more commerce than usual. It's extremely easy to get cities going with that - whip a granary/lighthouse and you instantly have 4+ tiles that are better than farms? Sign me up.

I know it works on other maps where you can get a coastal city with access to a lake, but usually the lakes themselves are too small - I remember way back in the day that I read somewhere that a big enough lake allows a lighthouse though?

TheMeInTeam,

If a lake is large enough, the game considers the water tiles to be coastal or ocean tiles (one less food.)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

. Not cool. That makes no sense (lake superior doesn't function like the ocean), but I guess it's needed for balance. I meant lighthouse in the above post, BTW.

On a map with nothing but lakes the naval force is about as necessary as on pangaea - not very, especially because you can't move them between lakes. Maybe as a surprise attack on a human player who puts minimal garrisons there and you (for some reason) realize this. Maybe. Prolly not though.

 

[Kesshi]

. Not cool. That makes no sense (lake superior doesn't function like the ocean), but I guess it's needed for balance. I meant lighthouse in the above post, BTW.

On a map with nothing but lakes the naval force is about as necessary as on pangaea - not very, especially because you can't move them between lakes. Maybe as a surprise attack on a human player who puts minimal garrisons there and you (for some reason) realize this. Maybe. Prolly not though.

It gets worse. If the lake is too large to be an ocean, but not connected to the ocean (or maybe it's number of tiles...) the game will not let you produce naval units. You can still produce workboats, but not subs or destroyers, etc.

Spoiler :

You can see that the tiles count as salt-water tiles due to the food. However I can't build any ships exept for work boats! Even though I can easily shuttle my ships out via Uruk down south. Then you get situations like this:

Spoiler :

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Subs can move under the ice, so that is no barrier for the 2nd Pic.
For the first, I believe the lack of boats is to prevent the AI from wasting units building up a (usually) wasteful navy in the lake.

 

[Kesshi]

GooglyBoogly,

Oh really? Ahh, then that picture makes sense then. Thanks for the info!