A Noble Walkthrough

[pigswill]

I thought I'd have a go at a walkthrough on Noble. I'm aiming to play fairly short sets and try to focus on the mechanics as well as the strategy.

Having read a couple of threads on the problems people encounter with aggressive AIs I thought I'd play William on a pangea map, all settings standard, normal speed and I hand-picked the opponents: Alexander, Boudica, Genghis Khan, Montezuma, Napoleon, Ragnar and Shaka. The possibility of warfare cannot be totally discounted.

I'm playing BTS 3.17 without any mods.

There's a very good chance I'll get obliterated at an early stage so all advice is welcome.

Here's our fearless leader:

The settings:

The start:

And what happened when I moved the warrior SE:

Tricky. On the one hand Willem is one of the leaders that benefits from coastal cities (assuming it is coastal), on the other hand I'm not going to be building dikes in the early game and having a powerful capital is a good idea.

To capture the visible resources (marble and corn) I'd have to either settle on the hill where the warrior's standing or one of the floodplains. Its a grassland hill so don't get a hammer bonus (you get an extra hammer for settling on a plains hill (2h) but not a grassland hill (1f1h)). I'd also lose +2 health from a riverside location and still get health penalties from the floodplains in the city radius (aka Big Fat Cross aka BFC). Settling on a floodplain means one less floodplain to work (duh) but I'd have another hill to mine and the health bonus from riverside.

Another option would be to forget the marble and settle on a plains hill south of the river. I get the hammer bonus from settling on a plains hill (+1hammer every turn is a significant bonus over the course of the game). I'd also get riverside health bonus and keep the floodplains for cottages (very nice with a financial leader such as Willem). The main drawback is that its a leap in the dark (I don't know what tiles are south of the hills). I'd also lose a floodplain from the capital though the marble and floodplain would probably get used by another city later on.

Having thought it through I reckon I'll discount the grasslands hill as an option. If I move the settler 1 south I can see what's behind at least one of the hills then move either to nearest plains hill or floodplain. I lose a turn compared to settling on the floodplain straight away but its probably worth it.

If anyone wants to play along then I'll add the starting save. The usual proviso: don't post details of a shadow game or any information about the map outside spoiler tags. I'll try very hard not to peek.

 

[Joshua368]

I generally try to avoid settling on a floodplain if I have better alternatives, as that kills the floodplain. I would be the settler 1S and see what there is to see, with the corn and all those floodplains your capital is going to be pretty good anyway.

 

[nbcman]

If you don't see anything good when the settler moves 1S, you may want to consider settling 2E of where the settler is now. You will settle on a FP but you will keep the corn, the marble and all of the visible FP tiles in the capital's BFC. Also you will keep the 3 visible (unforested) hill tiles available for mining and possible resources popping in them.

 

[pigswill]

So I moved the settler 1 south and this is what she saw:

Curioser and curioser said Alice. It really is the seaside. With spice. 2E of starting position does indeed net 4 FPs, marble, corn and three hills. It also has an abundance of riverside grassland for even more 3c cottages. It misses out on the spice however. On balance though it probably is the best location. (It really does pay to post games, playing this solo I would not have thought of settling 2E, thanks nbcman.) But first lets move the settler on top of the hill, I've already lost a turn so it doesn't cost anything and gives us a nice view.

Lots of riverside grassland indeed. Still don't know what's south of the woods and I'm not going to spend another turn finding out (so its almost guaranteed to be fish and clams lurking in the shadows ).

 

[v8_mark]

You're almost going to be tech leader by default with those opponents, so production is what you're going to need to concentrate on in the early game, I think. 2E of starting position is almost certainly the best spot. Long-term, it should be a bureau/academy/cottage cheese capital.

Can't remember what techs the Dutch start with, but tech path should be Ag/Mining/BW/Wheel/Pottery. Maybe AH in there fifth if there's a pasture resource by your second city, or if there's no copper nearby. After that, you can maybe think about Oracle for MC (in which case, Masonry is tech #6, then straight to Priesthood - you should have time, with it being Noble and considering your opponents).

 

[pigswill]

Got round to playing a few turns. Started by settling Amsterdam:

Not bad: plains marble, grassland corn, 2 plains, 4 floodplains, 8 grassland, 3 hills (1 grass, 2 plains) and a mountain! 13 of these tiles are riverside for instant 3 commerce cottages.

But there's room for improvement. Start building a worker (15 turns) while working FP (3f1c) for 10 bpt (beakers/turn). William starts with fishing and agriculture and there's corn for farming to speed up growth. Production early on is useful so start researching mining (for mines to work alongside the corn and still grow), then BW (bronze-working) to whip and chop and maybe even find copper (though BtS 3.17 doesn't seem to favour copper as much as previous versions).

I send the warrior following the river north east. If you're lucky you can find a nice site on a river and get a free trade route, but not this time as the river fizzles out quickly.

Find a hut in 3840 which the warrior pops for 34 gold, not much but it all helps. He heads vaguely eastwards.

Finish mining in 3720 and start on BW.

Buddhism fidl (founded in a distant land) in 3640bc.

In 3560bc warrior meets Alex's scout heading from the north east and spots the borders of Mongolia across the water to the south.

In 3400 a viking scout arrives at our capital from the north.

In 3360 the worker is finally completed. Probably send him to plough the corn. Still three turns to BW. Still working the floodplain tile for a bit of commerce and faster growth.

Here's the world so far:

Some general thoughts:
I didn't pursue a religion and have no intention of doing so. One of the greatest threats to your survival is friendship between the AIs, they're more likely to trade between themselves and less likely to fight each other. One of the easiest ways to prevent friendships is to foster religious conflict by letting the AIs found and adopt different religions. You could of course found a religion and spread it around but that would probably involve missionaries which cost hammers that could be used on something else (axes, cats, libraries etc), maybe worthwhile if you reckon you'll get a Great Prophet for a shrine but even then there's the option of building a shrine after capturing a holy city.

I'm debating a warrior rush against Genghis, he's fairly close (8 tiles away) but being aggressive his warriors start with combat1, he also starts with hunting iirc so could opt for archery which seriously reduces the chances of a succesful warrior rush. On the other hand if he's stuck on a peninsula then he'll be looking to expand at my expense. However I'm very rusty on the mechanics of a warrior rush (coz its not something you try at monarch+). So I'm debating, not deciding.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

??? What was wrong with in place?

 

[pigswill]

Because (imho) once you've got to bureaucracy its better to have a super capital and a mediocre second city than to have a decent capital and a decent second city. There's always the chance that a tile in the original BFC will have a hidden resource but that's a chance you take whenever you move away from the start.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Time to play a shadow! Well once I'm home .

IMO in place was no way mediocre, although your site is slightly better at the expense of a turn.

When I shadow I'll settle in place since that's what I'd have done without seeing your moves.

 

[Joshua368]

Plus the start was one tile off coast, with Willem being so powerful on the water it was a good idea to see if there was anything worthwhile at sea.

 

[pigswill]

An ultra short set. Three turns have passed. The worker is farming the corn, city is still working FP, grow in 8 (shave some turns off that once corn is farmed in two turns), warrior in 15 (at pop1).

In 3240 met Monte the Buddhist via a scout arriving at Amsterdam from the north west.

Also discovered BW:

Two sources of copper. One a distance away, the other on the doorstep complete with a nearby pig to feed a city. Its very close to Genghis so war is going to be sooner rather than later. Warrior rush or settler followed by axe rush?

The screenshot tag in the top right corner is concealing ivory and gems (currently covered in jungle).

 

[r_rolo1]

I have 2 words for you, just two words: warrior rush

 

[Smartbluma]

Maybe do an axe rush? It's not that late in game.

 

[vicawoo]

Genghis does look boxed in though. Those are sea tiles, not lake tiles, although 15 tiles might be enough to make a salt water lake.

 

[Kesshi]

pigswill,

A few more thoughts on the starting position.

There was one spot that you could settle that would get every single one of those (known) Flood Plains that wasn't even discussed. One NE of your starting position. Five FP and 1 Grassland Rice with 2 Riverside Plains Hills? What a mosnter of a capitol. That would have been my first choice.

A close second would have been on the Western of the two Plains Hills for a 2 hammer capitol with lots of food.

The logic behind this is that you want a really strong capitol to get going really fast. Since your capitol is usually your empire's most developed city for a long time it will probably be the biggest source of Settler and Worker production, so it helps to have a very food heavy capitol. By settling on a FP that tile can no longer produce 4 Food, instead it's producing 2 Food, a net LOSS of 2 Food.

Anyways, onto the game at hand:

In my opinion you didn't do a very good job of exploring because you know nothing of the land immedately surrounding your capitol. There could be a Grassland Gold/Gem/Silver city with a dozen Flood Plains right next to you, but you'd never know... I always explore in a ring around my empire with my first exploring unit so that when I do discover something like Bronze Working, I won't miss a valuable resource that just so happens to be 1 tile in the Fog of War.

Regardless, an Axe rush here is EXTREMELY doable. This is how I would do it:

Working max food, grow your Capitol to size 3 and produce a Settler then a Worker while Teching to Animal Husbandry. Once your Capitol has finished that 2nd Worker, start on a Barracks. Settle a 2nd city 5 space east of your capitol, this will give you both Copper and Pigs in your first ring. Once that city is up, the first thing it should do is start on a Barracks while working the pigs until the Copper is Mined and Roaded. Once you have the Copper connected to the 2nd city start that city on producing 0exp Axemen. Once your capitol is connected to the copper you should be nearing completion of your Barracks. Produce a bunch of axes with both cities and charge right in. I would guess that you would need 6, but I'd make 8 just to be "sure." If Genghis gets up a 2nd city, keep only his capitol.

Barring anything else spectacular showing up, Settle your next city 1 west of the northeast Copper. That'll get you Copper in your first ring for production, and Cows in the 2nd ring for food. Mine the Copper, Pasture the Cows, and Cottage the heck out of that city, including the Spices. Start working on the Settler for this city as soon as you're done making Axes to go after Genghis.

Basically you want a production city and a commerce city setup early on, and because we don't know what Genghi's capitol looks like we shouldn't assume anything about it. Although, it does look coastas, so perhaps The Great Lighthouse could go there.

My tech path would be [Finish] The Wheel -> Animal Husbandry -> Fishing* -> Pottery -> Masonry

*If Genghis Khan's city is coastal AND has a seafood resource, tech Fishing. Otherwise skip it and go straight to Pottery. Substiute in Hunting for Fishing if he has Deer, Fur, or Ivory.

 

[pigswill]

r-rolo1 psycho-killer-extraordinaire has spoken. Warrior Rush it shall be.

Easy enough to say. Now I just need to do it. First thing (in fact the only thing) I need is a stack of warriors and with a pop1 city producing 1hpt (hammer per turn) that could take some time. Need to build up production.

3200bc. Meet Napoleon (to north east) and Boudica to the east.

3120. Worker completes farm and moves to grass hill. Due to grow to pop2 next turn.

3080. Pop 2. Decide to work corn (5f) and FP(3f). Grow in 4. Grasshill mine completes in 4.

3040. Meet shaka's scout near Amsterdam. Shaka's already annoyed.

2960. Wheel>AH. If I'm going for production then pottery can wait a bit longer, always nice to find where the horses roam free (even more useful to find where they've already been pasturised).

2920. Pop3. Consider two options:
i)corn, grasshill and unimproved marble give 9f, 6h, 9c, grows in 9 turns (producing 54 hammers in 9 turns).
ii) corn, grasshill and FP give 11f, 4h, 10c, grows in 5 turns. Worker completes plains hill mine in 5 turns. After five turns city will be pop 4 and can work corn, grasshill, plainshill and unimproved marble for 9f, 10h, 9c. So production works out after 9 turns to 5*4h + 4*10h for 60 hammers. Marginal improvement but still an improvement.

2760. GK adopts slavery. So he's got BW and knows where the copper is located, he can also whip defenders which adds to the excitement (and the number of attacking warriors needed).

2720. Amsterdam now pop 4:

Next turn worker will mine the other plains hill so after five turns Amsterdam will be stable at pop 4 producing 12hpt. Got three warriors so far.

Done a bit more exploration:

And checked out some attitudes:

Pretty much as expected. One bit of good news is that no-one's pleased with GK atm so if that stays the same I won't get diplo penalty for 'you declared war on my friend'.

Still haven't explored the gap between Amsterdam and GK's capital (Karakoram?). Be interesting if there was a one tile strait in between, might mess up the warrior rush somewhat .

 

[pigswill]

@Kesshi.Thanks for the input. If you re-read post#1 the tile north east of the starting position is the grassland hill which was indeed discussed (gets the floodplains and visible resources but no health bonus or hammer bonus). With regard to losing settler production there's actually no difference between grasshill mine (1f,3h) and farmed FP (4f).
In terms of exploration there's only so much you can do with one warrior and not many turns have been played yet, I've got warriors 2 and 3 out exploring.
I'm still not totally committed to a warrior rush at this point. I could knock out a settler in five turns (1 turn of anarchy switching to slavery, 4 turns for 40 hammers and a double whip for 60 hammers) and then build up for a later axe-rush.

Edit: I'm actually quite happy with Amsterdam's long term potential because of the additional riverside grasslands, they get +1c all game, with a levee/dike they also get +1h.

Another edit: My assumption that GK was boxed in on a small peninsula has proved to be false. He's got room to expand to the east and the antarctic tundra southwards so that will reduce the threat of an early war for lebensraum (he could still go to war for the sake of it however).

 

[r_rolo1]

From the map you posted it seems that there isn't a 1 tile isthmus between you and GK ( one of the deficiencies that I find a lot in Civ IV players is the unability of using the tiny bit of intel that you have from fogged tiles near known ones, not mentioning the trick of using flying camera to map hills, peaks and forests/Jungles in the fog of war.... ).

About warrior rush: given that this is noble, AI should be making it's second warrior after the worker ( GK starts with a scout only, so it should had been doing warrior->worker->warrior->settler ) and possibly teching BW or Archery now. 4 or 5 warriors will probably do the trick. Not that a axe rush is out of hand but probably a axe rush will find a archer in the way, while warriors most likely will only face warriors. And GK is too close to be apleased ( the level of overlapping borders would force a war sooner or later )

 

[pigswill]

A few more turns and something interesting happens.

2640 Nap adopts slavery. Amsterdam is still building warriors, worker is still mining a hill.

2600. Exploring warriors finds a hut with 42 gold inside it. There is indeed a nice landbridge leading to Karakorum.

2560. AH>pottery. Not a horse in sight.

2520. Worker finishes mine, starts building a road eastwards. Amsterdam now producing 12hpt.

2480. Amsterdam builds its last warrior which heads west to explore, the other six warriors head towards Mongolia. Amsterdam starts a settler for copper city. Rags has adopted slavery. William being a pinko-lefty politically correct liberal still hasn't adopted slavery however.

2360.
Mongolia has the largest tin deposits in the world! Our intrepid warriors are massing on the borders (4 in SW stack, 1 to SE, 1 a tile behind):

2320.
We have the second largest army in the world (32k v 33k for first).
Check out the diplomacy screen:

Hmmm. GK is getting popular. We'll get a -1 hit for declaring on their friend. But do we care? With enemies like these who needs (or can trust) friends.

The almost obligatory declaration screenshot:

And our warriors run screaming and waving their clubs as they pour across the border. But what's this? As predicted by r-rolo1 (psycho-killer-extraordinaire and secretary of state for war) GK only has one warrior defending .

As not predicted, he also has an archer!.

Our lone warrior to the south east thinks 'blow this for a game of soldiers' and kidnaps a Mongolian worker.

On the home front we finish reseraching pottery and start on masonry. A warrior exploring westwards finds a potential city site (more news on that later), the worker is still roading towards the copper. Amsterdam is due to complete a settler in four turns.

2280. Check out the combat odds: unpromoted warrior vs archer <0.01%. Not very good. Pause for thought. Rumours abound that r-rolo1 has been sacked as secretary of state for war amidst unsubstantiated allegiations of receiving 'favours' from the Karakorum Womans Institute. What now?

 

[r_rolo1]

Ouch, he beelined archery, then BW and chopped the archer.....

Well, I think you can still choke him... or try to lure him into the open with a sacrifial warrior or worker :/