A Very Winnable Deity Map

[ABigCivFan]

Grashopa,

Biz is industrious, I would not trade aesthetics to him. If you are aiming for Great Library, it is better to hold Aesth monopoly for a while. Also GL+Parth combo is always good to have.

Since you did not get BW, I would recommend let your capital grew to happy cap, working Pig+Marble+3 cottages before building any settlers, so you could build the settlers slightly faster and more importantly you could have researched faster.

Also I would get BW before writing and Aesth so you can whip/chop and grow faster. Getting Aesth earlier does not really help much.

 

[JBossch]

@Grashopa:

Spoiler :

Don't forget the gold. Definitely get some Quechas in place near both those barb cities to steal them if the AIs try to attack.

 

[Berkobob]

Emperor player here, win roughly 80% on that level, probably ~15% on Immortal. Hopefully you can put up with the blow-by-blow but I need feedback/criticism, I feel I dont optimise my early/mid game enough and thats why I lose games on Emperor.

Going to take this one nice and slow and get plenty of help, I will need it!

Round 1 (to 2240 BC):

Spoiler :

Moved warrior NE onto plains hill, settler 1W. Found marble so settled 1W. Popped three huts for a map of the sea and gold (x2).

Saw a barb warrior around 3400 BC. Are barbs always this early on Deity? Barbs also have a city to the east but I dont mind, it might block any AI's there and may even save me a settler.

Build order went worker → Quecha x4 → Worker→ Settler. Improved pigs first, then grassland mine, then started roading to the south in preparation for my second city. I switched between the marble/grassland hill/floodplain/plain hill tile to get the fourth quechas out the same turn that the city grew to size four. Worked max hammers to shave a turn off the second worker.

Tech path AH → Mining → Wheel → Pottery → BW. Stuck mining in there to get some 4 F+H tiles to get my fogbusters/second worker/settler up faster rather than get earlier commerce. Also got the + research event to help progress BW along.

Gameplan / Help needed for round 2:

Spoiler :

Found four neighbors but seem to have a bit of space. Have a settler awaiting a move in the capital. Dotmap of the known lands:

Marked three cities on the map. I was initially going to settle the Pig/Elephant city first for the extra happy face (hence where the roads are) but I feel that the white horse site is a better choice. Do I need to get chariots ASAP or will Quechas suffice a while longer? Or is it best to grab Copper with my third city (assuming I find some)

Plan is:

Tech:grab Writing → Aesthetics and head for Literature for GL+NE, picking up Priesthood along the way. Need happy faces but hoping I can get a religion and/or trade for Monarchy at some point.

Cities: settle the white, then blue, then red city. White would be a superb unit pump/HE city but I dont see any other good spots for GP's. I dont want to use my capital (although I could) and blue wont have enough hammers as a permanent solution (especially as I want Glib + NE)

I can build near wheat/banana to use southern mines (HE/unit pump) and grab one. Could relocate the barb city to borrow some of the hills from the GP farm, depends on food sources.

Last resort is a city NE of capital, so I will get six cities.

Plan to use blue to generate the first, second GS (??) while other cities develop infra/work cottages. Or should I get the red city up and running before blue? I feel I can make it to red fifth, maybe I should get wheat/banana fourth? Plan to get the next four cities out super fast as I think the cottages in cap should support it.

GP's: Plan to use first GS for an academy in the capital. Second probably an academy in the white city???

Diplo: Play nice with neighbors. Hopefully adopt Shaka/Sury's religion and give into a few demands to keep them off me, or bribe Shaka against someone.

Wonders: With IND + Marble will try to build Parthenon in capital and Glib in white city. Dont think I will have time for ToA but may failbuild it in capital if I get my cities up fast enough.

I considered trying to oracle MC for super fast forges & for trading for Alpha/Math/IW/CoL. Decided against it due to not knowing Deity and having two strong city sites immediately available. Would this be a viable alternative??

I have a worker queued for a whip next turn, should I whip it or the Terrace instead? I feel worker is best as I can regrow on cottages/pigs while building the Terrace, then whip the next settler at size 6. I think white can build/chop the third settler

Apologise for the length/number of questions but trying to learn some of the finer points of the game. Comments etc more than welcome, thanks!

 

[Grashopa]

ABCF

Spoiler :

I played the game as if I hadn't seen your worker comment and met Sury very early, after that no way I would have taken the time to put out another worker needed to get the capital to cap and then grown there (~15 turns) before getting settlers out to the best spots. I had gone exploring east and when I came back west Sury's borders were not far from the gold as well so I actually thought he'd take it - I agonized over the 6 turn delay it took to grow from 3 to 5

As to Aesthetics - I have 6 cities now after I take the barb cities shortly. I don't plan on doing anything more than another worker or two then building wealth via fail gold. At immortal I'd probably get more than 3000 gold from the 3 wonders we have the resources for. We have 3 ~20 hammer cities it looks like and lots of forest to chop. Well cow/horse is sharing hills with plains banana... Obviously Bismarck getting alphabet first is annoying, but whats the chance he gets all 3 before I get some good hammers into them?

If I get alphabet now I figure on picking up monarchy shortly which means my capital gets up to size earlier and BW comes free + less anarchy turns. Could have settled around it to work cottages for it, but figured on early monarchy instead.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Berkobob,

Cant enlarge your screen shot but took a look at your save

Spoiler :

There is a barb city to the far east, so i d be less worried about blocking East. given the map you have explored, i suggest 1 E of pig first (pig+2x Ivory+horse). Send a worker with this setter, improve the pig first, and this city can be a quick worker/settler pump.

Explore a bit more around corn and fish, and consider use this city to gain the first GS.

Wheat/cow/horse city will be a super city (I d use this as the HE city as oppose to commerce)

the wheat/banana is a tempting site if you manage to beat the AIs to it.

I suggest Mason after BW, river side marble + fin gives 1f+3h+4commerce which is a great prod tile.

@Grashopa

Spoiler :

Indeed Monarchy is a key tech in this game, I actually got it via Oracle in my own game.

 

[Grashopa]

ABCF

Spoiler :

Yeah duh I've gone oracle-monarchy in the last 5 forum games I've played and didn't think of it.

But, oracle is still available in my save. And maybe its the alcohol talking, but I can oracle HBR and HA someone. We go HAs here we have 52/turn in your HE city and another 2 cities going 20/turn. Lets say oracle works thats ~750BC HE 250 BC probably 18 HAs? Now I'm wondering why I built that last settler screw the gold - I've got an off religion neighbor that wants to die Should always stop and rethink the plan a bit as you go. Hell ToA is still out, and I'm building cottages while waiting on the border pop at your HE city.

 

[d72]

I'm having trouble with this easy map. Could abigcivfan post his game so I get some pointers?

 

[JBossch]

@d72:

Why don't you try posting your game and we can give you a hand.

 

[d72]

Sure.

The problems I'm having is no techtrade though friendly and a few undeveloped tiles. Tiles I can manage but no gifts is really hurting here.

Spoiler :

 

[kossin]

@d72

Spoiler :

One thing that strikes me is the number of unimproved tiles. I see you're building a worker but some cities are building Temples/Missionary. One city is building a monument while it has culture already (to steal the Bananas yes, but other options might be better than a Monument?)

As for trades... I see Mathematics is available via Hatty if you put a turn or 2 of research in it. Similarly, you can probably get something from Sury for Literature.

 

[Berkobob]

@ ABCF – thanks for the comments, I agree with the comments on both tech and city settlement.

Cant get the screens the right size so I will give those a miss

Round 2 (to 850 BC):

Spoiler :

Decided to take ABCF's suggestion on settling my city and settle the red city 1S of my first location to pick up the horses. Whipped the worker in Cuzco and put overflow into a Settler while growing on the Terrace. Settled the blue GP city next. Whipped another worker from the pig city so I have four now.

Bismarck went WHEEORN midway into the set and I was the only person he knew who wasnt Buddhist. Fearing the worst, I put walls in the pig city and started on barracks/axemen. I didnt want to end the round with him in WHEEORN to get advice in case he just declared and the game was lost.

I got open borders with all the buddhists and got buddhism, switched ASAP, Asoka and Shaka are heathen Hindus.

Luckily Bismarck declared on Pacal, I ended the round here to get some advice.

Have Egypt to my East now, it looks like they took the barb city so I rushed a settler over to claim the super Horse/Cow site. With the peaks I have blocked in the copper/wheat site, so I currently have five cites, space for a sixth, 7 if I can claim the barb city, need a seventh bad as my gold city will probably be pretty useless/marginal at best.

Teched BW → Masonry → Writing → Hunting → Aesthetics. (hunting for phants). Tried begging fishing without any luck.

Explored SW, found gold and Pacal's scout. Also found Sury's/freddy's borders to the south. Wanted to settle 1W of gold but sury had a city there, decided to settle 1E of gold to claim it. Will probably steal the pig from the elephant city later on to grow it a bit.

Barbs have a city up where I want my wheat/banana site. Decide I want that site really bad and that I am going to hook up copper ASAP and build some axes to take it.

 

[ABigCivFan]

50AD update:

Spoiler :

Tech path went: AH-Wheel-Pottery-Mining-Mason-(Oracle 1800BC -> Monarchy)-writing-Aesth-Currency-COL-CS-Paper

Bulbed Philo, traded for most other techs, 1 GS on hand to bulb Edu. All except 1 AI are pleased.

blocked south and south east first, then the HE city, then the iron/ivory filler city.

50AD: 6 cities built, GL+NE in capital, Parthenon in Tiwanaku, almost got SOZ in Machu Picchu, 1 turn to HE in cow/wheat/horse city. got some cover/CR1 Queshua on way to the barb city, will add more cover Queshua to take that barb city. Can sqeeze in 2 more cities above capital. Now CS is in, building more workers to chain farms (been focusing on land grabbing, will soon need whipping infras).

All cities except capital will now get farms to grow, all have decent prod. Prob will DOW Sury first.

Culture is a problem here need to whip lots culture buildings in a few cities.

Sury was very aggressive settling the cities, even slipped some settler through.


125BC: capital with GL+NE. growing GS during a GAge, burned a Gprophet to start the GA.




50AD: current status.

 

[ABigCivFan]

@Berkobob

A few comments:

Spoiler :

1. I would get Fishing before Aesth so your fish/corn city can be much more useful much earlier (building worker/settlers or whip)

2. The gold city is a junk city, it wont be much useful for a very long time. I would skip this city and focus on Tiwanaku (i.e. build SOZ and or Parthenon in it to cultural grab the gold)

3. Not building worker in capital as you have enough for now, instead, build library (work the hill)

4. Not building library in Machu Pichu, instead get fishing, whip a fish boat, then build settler (settle the wheat/copper city). Your capital can pull all the research you need for now.

5. Try get GL+NE in capital for GS prod.

6. Taking a hill barb city is not easy with Axe, i would send some Axe there and see if AIs are attacking it. Later CR swords will help a lot. Edit: actually cover quechuas are more cost effective in taking barb cities here.

@ds72

Spoiler :

Great blocking and settlements. As others had mentioned, for a prime city like the wheat/cow/horse city, I would send a dedicated worker to this city and focus on bring it up ASAP by chopping the Granary, improve the resources and grow it. At this phase of the game, land grabbing, working the improved tiles (more workers) are more important than building infrustructure. when you have more high yielding tiles, things can be whipped much faster.

About tech, after Currency and CS are in you should be in great shape to self-research and trade. just need those key techs for wonders and win Lib race.

 

[obsolete]

I started to micro-manage the first 2/3 of the game. This has really caused my turns to slow down, and hence I had to break it up in little session breaks. I'm still taking a break right now before I resume, but I think I have this one locked up (famouse last words). I do wish you hadn't left gay-events turned on. I already had 2 free golden ages and it's not even done yet. And since I had started already 2 golden ages before that, just think of the extra GPs you'd need to get those 2 free ones.

That seems a little broken, no?

Regardless of that, this map seems much easier than your average immortal start.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Yes, I did find out this was rather an "easy" Deity map within my first few turns, not just a great Capital site, but also the good land grab possibilities with long winding rivers.

The great capital can accelerate players tech rates to acquire those key techs needed for a strong Renaissance war (Cav/Rifle/Canon). I got steam power around 1060AD, and with Levee everywhere, I had 4 cities with ~40 base hammer, and 3 other very high production cities to launch a cav bliz.

But I thought this could be a good map for players who are trying to step up to Deity while discussing the strength and weakness of their plays in this thread. This is not a challenge thread, but more of a Deity game clinic.

 

[obsolete]

Start to Finish --

Some cottage fans are going to be a little shocked, as I refused to waste one capital tile on any commerce improvement. I also did quite a few unorthodox things in this game, but it worked out quite well.

On other notes, with only 2 food sources I still managed to get over half a thousand turns unhappiness-penalty in my whip factory

Spoiler :

My capital placement may look a bit weird. I decided to move to the plains-hill for early bonus. However after I had moved I suddenly didn’t like that spot very much, but what was done was done so I decided to stay there. At least I did pop copper there later so it wasn’t that bad. But I would definitely have to chance from my normal strategy though, and that I did, as I used a city far down south near the gold to build most my wonders. In fact, I even build things like SoZ and Sistine (for culture battles).

This was a little risky with Surry around, but I did get him up to pleased and friendly, to make myself feel safer. Also I did bribe him in a war against bismark early. This was a VERY costly war because I gave the backwards guy so many techs to do so, and all he did was end up in peace a couple turns later. Ughhh!!!! That plan sure blew up in my face, but at least it gave a -3 to their relations.

I think I lost Stone Henge just as I was completing it to a tie, and then I lost the Paya while I was close to the end, and then I also lost UoS to a god damn tie to Pacal. However, I was quite fortunate with just about all the other big gun wonders so I can’t really complain.

Liberalism went 375 AD. I consider 400 AD very decent so I was rather happy, especially with the cities I had founded and all the wonders I had gathered. However, Egypt pissed me off when she got VERY lucky to capture a barb city in a great spot that I was just 1 turn away from getting myself. Sometimes the RNG just screws you. Oh well, that’s what I get for trying to EXP farm off barb cities, you risk losing the whole city to some lol.

Later on Bismark went weehorn on me, so I delayed my attacks on Egypt to see what would happen. Turned out Bismark DoWs on Egypt. But stupid Egypt kept a very large SoD near my border not even trying to use it to save her other cities that were getting run over. What a !

I decided to hell with her, I had waited long enough in trying to run her over. So I also DoW and smashed into one of her SoDs with my cuirassier stacks. Then I took a bunch more cities and bribed Bismark to peace with her. I played this game enough times to know that deity Ais will almost always refuse to vassal to the human player and instead try to vassal to the non-human when given the choice.

I decided to get a bit fancy with spies to drop culture to save a bit on my cavalry. I DID SOMETHIN STUPID and accidently poured 1K spy points on Bismark by accident before I realized what I had done. Yup, I’m an idiot too.

This delayed things longer but eventually I took out Egypt’s capital and another great city. Then I had my first vassal, Tadahh!!

I was thinking on toppling over backwards India next, but again I played this game long enough to know that stupid Bismark would probably want to DoW on me if I did. So instead I built a stack of cannons to beat up on Bismark. I avoid cannons in 99% of my games, but this one gave the perfect opportunity. Bismark had all his army in one city which I had cultural dominance over. So this would allow me to attack it with cannons on the same turn I DoW.

So I obliterated it, and then took a few cities, lost one but still came out ahead. I did run into some horrid dice, but still came out ahead. I had to re-join the war again soon because my buddy Surry decided to DoW on Bismark himself as well, but was getting his ass kicked. I save him and then made peace again, while I ran over and capitulated the Indians with tanks just to prevent him from ending up on anyone else’s side this game.

I doubled back and Re-Dowed on Bismark to save Surry’s ass yet again… and kept on the pressure. I can’t remember how many times I DoWed on Bismark but eventually I capitulated him after he foolishly built too many artillery without any substance to take advantage of them (and he left them exposed) buwahahahahah!

I built the internet just for denial purposes (you never know), and made a beeline for space, but it was of no need. I stocked my vassal’s front cities with defensive units and DoW on Pacal. (BTW, Surry had FRIENDLY vassaled to me by this point).

Stupid Pacal did a few suicide attacks (gee thanks), and got rapped so bad that on my FIRST TURN after the war DoW he was ALREADY willing to sue for peace. Never seen that before

I refused of course, and pushed on to capture a major city of his. Unfortunately that nice city was rather pointless since it seemed I had already technically won a UN victory vote without the need of it.

Why is it just when the game is getting so much fun it rapidly comes to and end!?


The name of my capital explains the mood after I had settled.

Decent liberalism time-line.

Two of my stacks vs one of Bismarks. Hmmmmm...

At 600 turns for unhappiness penalty, I decided I had abused them enough...
These vintages photos show the effects still lingering long after nationalism had been ebolished.

End-Game Resolution....

 

[Berkobob]

Round 3 (to 325 BC): Again apologise for no screens.

Spoiler :

Took some of ABCF's advice, put fishing into the queue but foolishly whipped the library and not the workboat. Cost me some turns of development in that city. Now running two scientist there. Also changed capital to a library - very good suggestion as it really rocketed my science along.

I did a lot of trading with Aesthetics and Alphabet to catch up - grabbed stuff like math/IW/sailing/polytheism/priesthood (for COL). Beelined Lit to build Glib/NE/HE.

Hatty and Shaka also at war. I think Shaka is on another landmass as Hatty only has 1-2 archers in her closest cities and is not losing any

Managed to get the barb city after hatty failed to kill the last archer. Had two axes in range, first one won at 42% odds. Also settled wheat/copper to bring city total to 7.

Just finished Glib and am 1 turn from Parthenon - held Lit monopoly until Hatty got currency, traded Lit to her for 245g to finish Music with slider at 100%.

currently 4 turns from music. See next part of post for strategy from here.

Spoiler :

I think I have two valid strategies - need help choosing which. Plan on backtrading Music for Construction + Monarchy + hopefully Currency. (2 AI's have it hopefully someone else learns it and it becomes available for trade)

Option 1 - Build NE in Capital, tech CoL, run a GA, grab Caste and farm GP's in the capital once NE is done. Use GS for Academy, then research compass + bulb Philo, head to Liberalism, grab Nationalism for Taj, then head for Cavalry to crush an AI (thinking Hatty or Sury)

Option 2 - run a GA, tech HBR, stockpile some gold, spam waves of catapults/elephants from my four eastern cities, declare on Hatty and start taking cities. Probably still get academy in capital but use capital for build support units like axes/archers/spears and build NE in blue city (using whip + 1 mine tile).

If this was on Emperor I would go option 2 but I am not sure it would work on Deity. Hatty does have a lot of cities but I suspect most of these are weakly defended and she will not spam too many units, a small, well promoted stack should take out about half her empire.

Only concern is a backstab from Sury, I dont trust him even though we are in same religion. He could always dogpile one of his neighbors though.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Berkobob,

Spoiler :

Some nitpicking on your micromanagement.

1. Near the cow/wheat/horse city, you have 2 workers farming and 1 just completed a hill mine while the cow and wheat are unimproved. In newer cities you should try to always improving the highest food yield tiles before anything else (in this case I would put 2 workers on cow, then wheat as soon as the border pop. Also mine grass hills/river hills before non-grass hills and non-river hills.

2. In your fish/corn city, no Terrance, granaries should be whipped before whipping anything else

3. You could fit in one more city to work the Iron/Ivory, this can later be a decent production city

4. You already hit WFYBTA with Pacal, although he might later become Friendly and start trading again. In early game, try only trade necessary techs from the AIs according to your immediate goal, skip or self-research those cheap techs, so later you could trade more expensive and useful techs from the AIs.

5. Also in the Capital, I would build NE ASAP since you have Pathenon and GL in capial, this will help you with philo/edu bulbs for lib race. Music is not guaranteed here since Hatty might be going for it too.

6. Set EP on one AI, here prob either Hatty or Pacal.

7. After music, get currency, CS and chain farms to whip and grow your cities.

About long-term planning.

You are surrounded by 3 AIs, also Pacal can become quite advanced later, so I would recommend focusing on economy and strength your empire until you have a stronger tech and production capacity i.e. winning lib, getting rifling/steel/steam power and etc. Your river cities will be prod powerhouses with levees. Then you will be able to launch a mush stronger and sustainable assault against multiple AIs.

Edit: @obsolete

Spoiler :

Yes, i am a bit shocked that you moved capital away from the river (flood plains, health bonus and later huge levee bonus). but it was a decent worker/settler pump early and a good GP farm later.

Also, you did "waste" a lot of tiles in other cities for cottages

 

[ABigCivFan]

played to 1430AD 3 days ago:

Spoiler :

620AD: Since I bulbed Philo and Education first and held them monopoly for a while, did not have any competition for lib race, Pacal was even nice enough to trade me Nationalism for Edu, and I built Taj for the 2nd GA. I had Marble and He did not. Delayed Lib until 620AD to grab Military Tradition.

1010AD: Using all cities as production cities preparing for a Calvary rush. Running Caste to maximize workshop output and Theo. Rushing to Steam Power to take advantage of the huge levee bonus in multiple cities. My plan was to take down Sury quickly and then Pacal, then Germany since these 3 are the score leaders and posing the most threat. So if my plan worked it is Game Over.



1010AD: Techs. Holding key military techs monopoly. Pacal, the most advance AI seems going down the Physics route. which is good news. After steam power, I ll go Steel->Railroad(hammer bonus and war mobility)-> AL for cannon and infantry to attack stronger AIs.




1160AD: Cav bliz against Sury, taking the first city against a medieval army.



1170AD: Sury Bribes Germany to Dow me! Nice move, now i am against 2nd and 3rd AIs. So I quickly bribed Pacal the #1 AI against Bis for a mere $1145 (better to use gold than those military techs)
This has evolved into a great situiation for me since now all my strongest potential enermies are in war and even fighting among themselves.



1310AD: My Cavs tore through Khmer land, when Sury started fielding muskets and Curies, he only had 4 cities left. Nice loot for a cease fire.



1310AD: After Sury Capitulate, I quickly ended war with Germany, and Pacal while he was still in war against Gemany. He had no strength to fight 2 strong foes and I quickly took his main cities. Note I used all workers on railroads to rush the slow moving cannons to the front (via German land), which really helped to take down his best Rifle defended cities.

1390AD: 1 turn to AL. (another GA triggered by completing 7 colossum quest)




1420AD: Pacal Caps. saw a great opportunity when the biggest German offensive stack is marching back to Germany. I DOW Biz and ambushed his main stack.




1430AD: I suicide 6 Barrage II cannons on Biz's stack (34 strong units) and then annihilated it with my cavs. Now Biz only has the force to defend. My northern army (Infantry/Cannon/Cavs) will sweep down south to merger with my veteran South Western army to finish Biz then onto Egypt and India.

 

[Berkobob]

To 300AD:

Spoiler :

Hatty did indeed get Music first. Still traded Music for Currency and Monarchy and later, Civil Service (after part researching). Got Sury to friendly by gifting Civil Service, then Hatty, then Pacal.

Teched CoL -> CS -> Paper -> Edu -> Lib -> Gunpowder. Took Nationalism as free tech.

Built NE in capital. GS went on Academy, Philo, Edu, Liberalism. Teched Paper, traded for HBR and other filler techs, including Metal Casting. Started getting forges up and going.

Could have perhaps delayed Liberalism to try for MT but I wanted the earlier Taj for the GA and Nationalism is still an expensive tech Going to chop NE in the wheat/copper city. Ended up building the filler production city late in the round.

Plan to cavalry stomp Hatty is still viable, Bis is the only who can backstab me and he hates Pacal most.

Dont think building Oxford is going to be doable - i need all the hammers i can spare for curi's IMO. Building a uni in capital as will be running bureau for a while to come.