Acid_04: The final frontier
- Thread starter acidsatyr
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National in capital look like weed move, we would not run any specialists there, as it is heroic epic city with mil academy and instructor. I was thinking we agreed on Washingto as location for NE?
Otherwize yes, we probably need to bribe Shaka to figth ragnar, but by building Ne in capital we did not build units?
so we probably do not have enogth units to help him.
Our Great library will absolute soon, as we would need to run to Biology and Ne in capital would be absolutly useless.
Otherwize yes, we probably need to bribe Shaka to figth ragnar, but by building Ne in capital we did not build units?
so we probably do not have enogth units to help him.Our Great library will absolute soon, as we would need to run to Biology and Ne in capital would be absolutly useless.
ThERat
Deity
and by the way, played a mere 10 turns in case someone wondered since acid was talking about mark getting liberalism
sorry for the weed move, was so excited about libaralism run and saw 3 turns NE... 
by the way, we must get Shaka to fight Ragnar, he would fight both at the same time...
While he attacks Rangar from the east, we could grab Ragnar's and Wangs cities to the southeast of us...sorry again for the
move here....
sorry for the weed move, was so excited about libaralism run and saw 3 turns NE... by the way, we must get Shaka to fight Ragnar, he would fight both at the same time...
While he attacks Rangar from the east, we could grab Ragnar's and Wangs cities to the southeast of us...sorry again for the
move here....
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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I thought Mark is after theRat...n/m
OK, not all is lost. Since we have NE in capital, lest use it!
First both Washington and Thebes can build some gp points;
so lets switch to pacifism. Our capital can be reconfigured so we get our next scientists in 5 turns, if my math is correct, something to think about!
Also, we could assign one eng. in Washington and with pacifism that +20 pts for gp.
Also we should really irrigate rice in Washington, and if you ask me farm over all those cottages, seems like great place for S. Theater.
I agree giving Education to Shaka, but I would do it just before we get to grenadiers so there is only a small time gap before we jump in to fight.
Last thing. Alex is pleased from treading, right? I assume theRat didn’t ask Alex to gift us those 7gpt. Also, Shaka will take fish for 7 gpt, and Japan will take rice for 8. That’s 22gpt! which offsets pacifism and gives in some extra as we build units.
Lets see what Blake can do here, i hope he follows the disscussion so far
---------
acidsatyr AKA Seth
Mutineer AKA The Scorpion King
ThERat AKA Imhotep
Blake AKA Duamutef <<------NEXT!!! 10 turns
Mark AKA Wepwawet
Uberfish AKA Sobek
OK, not all is lost. Since we have NE in capital, lest use it!
First both Washington and Thebes can build some gp points;
so lets switch to pacifism. Our capital can be reconfigured so we get our next scientists in 5 turns, if my math is correct, something to think about!
Also, we could assign one eng. in Washington and with pacifism that +20 pts for gp.
Also we should really irrigate rice in Washington, and if you ask me farm over all those cottages, seems like great place for S. Theater.
I agree giving Education to Shaka, but I would do it just before we get to grenadiers so there is only a small time gap before we jump in to fight.
Last thing. Alex is pleased from treading, right? I assume theRat didn’t ask Alex to gift us those 7gpt. Also, Shaka will take fish for 7 gpt, and Japan will take rice for 8. That’s 22gpt! which offsets pacifism and gives in some extra as we build units.
Lets see what Blake can do here, i hope he follows the disscussion so far
---------
acidsatyr AKA Seth
Mutineer AKA The Scorpion King
ThERat AKA Imhotep
Blake AKA Duamutef <<------NEXT!!! 10 turns
Mark AKA Wepwawet
Uberfish AKA Sobek
ThERat
Deity
now that we got liberalism in, we need to reconfigure the cities as stated by acid...
I had some scientists working in 2 cities, and Washington can indeed work an additional engineer...
I would still give education to Shaka now to let them fight. they will both need some turns to burn their units and we could use that time to get to grenadiers and then whip a sizeable force once in nationhood...
Also, as I am not too familiar with vassals, what does Ragnar now enjoy in terms of benefits?
I had some scientists working in 2 cities, and Washington can indeed work an additional engineer...
I would still give education to Shaka now to let them fight. they will both need some turns to burn their units and we could use that time to get to grenadiers and then whip a sizeable force once in nationhood...
Also, as I am not too familiar with vassals, what does Ragnar now enjoy in terms of benefits?
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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he enjoys his theritory which counts toward domination, and also Wang will fight with him.
Shaka will attack Ragnar/Wang + give his World map, and all his cash for education. We shuold wait till the price drops a little bit, IMO.
Shaka will attack Ragnar/Wang + give his World map, and all his cash for education. We shuold wait till the price drops a little bit, IMO.
To be true I do not know what to do now.
Plan was to get as mach GP point as posible in washington when running Orgonised religion for infrustructure in all other cities and use capital to crank all military for a time been. Now this plan is imposible, as we do not have ability to produce enogth gp points with out pacifism, and we can not produce enogth shields for infrustructure with out Orgonised religion and we can not produce units in capital. Really wasting 2 greate generals, HE and burocracy by running spicialists in capital?
I do not see how we can keep up in tech, as on 0 research we have only +30 gp turn or so.
I think we need to incite war now anyway, as we need for them to burn there units. May be wait a few turns for ragnar to move his units around.
Plan was to get as mach GP point as posible in washington when running Orgonised religion for infrustructure in all other cities and use capital to crank all military for a time been. Now this plan is imposible, as we do not have ability to produce enogth gp points with out pacifism, and we can not produce enogth shields for infrustructure with out Orgonised religion and we can not produce units in capital. Really wasting 2 greate generals, HE and burocracy by running spicialists in capital?
I do not see how we can keep up in tech, as on 0 research we have only +30 gp turn or so.
I think we need to incite war now anyway, as we need for them to burn there units. May be wait a few turns for ragnar to move his units around.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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I would do that for next 5 turns only, so that we get GS immediately.
After that switch back to max production.
Nothing to be done about NE now but lets get at least something from it now.
Also, our capital could be good production city but it could also assign more scientists after biology later on...
I think we can pull this off if we time the moment when we jump into the fight with granadiers... i hope
we need S. Theater in Washington asap so we draft
1 renaissance level tech is normally about the price the AIs want to start war. I think it's worth it, if we can get a tech from Alex too, since Shaka is extremely erratic and if we proactively bribe him it prevents him deciding us.
We have most of the warmonger AIs in this game, but I was actually relieved to see Alex rather than Elizabeth or some other builder AI who with blake_ai on deity might just sneak a cultural win on us.
We have most of the warmonger AIs in this game, but I was actually relieved to see Alex rather than Elizabeth or some other builder AI who with blake_ai on deity might just sneak a cultural win on us.
futurehermit
Deity
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Hey guys, lurking on this thread, just wanted to say 500AD liberalism on deity. Wow, v. nice! Just seeing that made me realize how much I still have to learn 
And you did it with some of the crappiest trading partners I've seen lumped together in a game 
Looking forward to seeing how this game pans out. Great job so far.
EDIT: I just wanted to comment on some things that I thought really went in your favour this game:
1) Horses nearby so you could use your very powerful UU in early war against the USA.
2) USA had CoL and would give it to you for peace, meaning access to Caste System, but more importantly opened up CS so you could continue your climb toward liberalism, plus it opened up your lightbulb of philosophy (pacificism + good trading tech). So, that was pretty huge imo
3) Marble in capital to build GL was great!
I thought these three things (along with of course some masterful play/use of civics) really helped you guys pull off such a great ed/liberalism time
EDIT2: Of course being spiritual helped shave turns off your liberalism time = no anarchy
And you did it with some of the crappiest trading partners I've seen lumped together in a game Looking forward to seeing how this game pans out. Great job so far.
EDIT: I just wanted to comment on some things that I thought really went in your favour this game:
1) Horses nearby so you could use your very powerful UU in early war against the USA.
2) USA had CoL and would give it to you for peace, meaning access to Caste System, but more importantly opened up CS so you could continue your climb toward liberalism, plus it opened up your lightbulb of philosophy (pacificism + good trading tech). So, that was pretty huge imo
3) Marble in capital to build GL was great!
I thought these three things (along with of course some masterful play/use of civics) really helped you guys pull off such a great ed/liberalism time
EDIT2: Of course being spiritual helped shave turns off your liberalism time = no anarchy
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
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Your worst enemy on deity is trying to win before the AI launches a spaceship. Sometimes domination/conquest may not be possible in this case. What victory conditions are we aiming for? Because if it's cultural, we need to start spreading religions now.
Wow. Great work guys. I bow to the power of pacifism/caste system and the religious trait, I was wrong. Also great diplomacy. I favor bribing Shaka to attack Rangar. I see an open spot with gems and dyes available if we could whip a quick settler. I see I am on deck. I will be able to play up to Sat. and then will be out for a few days.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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Hey guys, lurking on this thread, just wanted to say 500AD liberalism on deity. Wow, v. nice! Just seeing that made me realize how much I still have to learn
Looking forward to seeing how this game pans out. Great job so far.
EDIT: I just wanted to comment on some things that I thought really went in your favour this game:
1) Horses nearby so you could use your very powerful UU in early war against the USA.
2) USA had CoL and would give it to you for peace, meaning access to Caste System, but more importantly opened up CS so you could continue your climb toward liberalism, plus it opened up your lightbulb of philosophy (pacificism + good trading tech). So, that was pretty huge imo
3) Marble in capital to build GL was great!
I thought these three things (along with of course some masterful play/use of civics) really helped you guys pull off such a great ed/liberalism time
EDIT2: Of course being spiritual helped shave turns off your liberalism time = no anarchy
1) We have horses, but no bronze. Standard starting position.
2) CoL for peace, nothing unusual again, I've seen better in fact
3) We would've got GL without marble anyway.
The one thing that really helps us is spiritual trait.
We already changed civics few times in a row, and this would be impossible without the trait.
No cultural victory, thats for sissies
Domination all the way baby.futurehermit
Deity
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1) We have horses, but no bronze. Standard starting position.
2) CoL for peace, nothing unusual again, I've seen better in fact
3) We would've got GL without marble anyway.
The one thing that really helps us is spiritual trait.
We already changed civics few times in a row, and this would be impossible without the trait.
No cultural victory, thats for sissies
I agree with what you're saying here, I'm just saying these things helped you shave turns off of your liberalism time. Sure, CoL is nothing special, but the fact that you were able to get it at that time allowed you to proceed smoothly up the liberalism ladder
Same with GL, you would've got it anyways, but the marble helped you shave some turns Can't wait to see you guys win on these insane settings (with insane trading partners)
Domination ftw!Looked at the save, my analysis
1) Education to Shaka for war on Ragnar + 140g + world map is a really good deal IMO, but we have to think about the consequences. Power graph and comparative size says Shaka wins this fight easily and Ragnar will vassalize to him. I think since we already built some Maces and Elephants we should use them instead of waiting for grenadiers, build up a few more mace/ele/treb for a couple of turns before we bribe, and just make sure we're in a good position to backstab Ragnar once his big stack is destroyed and take say Birka and Haithabu before he vassalizes to Shaka. (put a road on the desert hill near Birka for this purpose.)
Once Ragnar becomes Shaka's vassal or is destroyed, we can easily finish off 2CC Korea with our Trebs and that should be enough land to win with, though if shaka has a 100 unit modern stack too I can see us potentially needing nukes if the psychos on *our* team want domination
2) we should found a city 1E of where Pusan was and another in the gap occupied by the other razed Korean city at the gems, before someone else does.
3) I would leave most of the cottages at Washington. The city has a ton of surplus food already and if we farm there some more we won't get full use of it due to unhealthiness as farm+specialist takes up 2 pop space compared to 1 for a cottage. It would be reasonable instead to aim for working 5 resources, lake, farm, 6 cottages, and 9 specialists at size 22, and while we are using it as a draft centre the city already has enough food to regrow every turn without any more farms. At deity we will generally be forced into emancipation relatively quickly so our cottages will grow.
3) Toku and shaka have 15gpt available between them that we can sell resources for, and should consider since we have a cashflow problem. Also cancel shaka corn trade, we have our own now
4) Where are we going to build Oxford? Washington I guess? Not ideal as we might want to draft out of it but I guess we have to compromise. Another reason to fight with Medieval troops instead of waiting for silly gunpowder.
5) suggest queueing Taj Mahal (17 turns) in Boston ahead of university before anyone else gets Nationalism, golden age with so many Plains Farms is amazing.
6) Our science rate is lousy because we are pretending to be a specialist economy while running an awe inspiring total of 6 specialists (and two of those are free from Great Library.) Can we build some cottages at Hyangsan and/or NY to tide us over until we get bio/rep?
1) Education to Shaka for war on Ragnar + 140g + world map is a really good deal IMO, but we have to think about the consequences. Power graph and comparative size says Shaka wins this fight easily and Ragnar will vassalize to him. I think since we already built some Maces and Elephants we should use them instead of waiting for grenadiers, build up a few more mace/ele/treb for a couple of turns before we bribe, and just make sure we're in a good position to backstab Ragnar once his big stack is destroyed and take say Birka and Haithabu before he vassalizes to Shaka. (put a road on the desert hill near Birka for this purpose.)
Once Ragnar becomes Shaka's vassal or is destroyed, we can easily finish off 2CC Korea with our Trebs and that should be enough land to win with, though if shaka has a 100 unit modern stack too I can see us potentially needing nukes if the psychos on *our* team want domination
2) we should found a city 1E of where Pusan was and another in the gap occupied by the other razed Korean city at the gems, before someone else does.
3) I would leave most of the cottages at Washington. The city has a ton of surplus food already and if we farm there some more we won't get full use of it due to unhealthiness as farm+specialist takes up 2 pop space compared to 1 for a cottage. It would be reasonable instead to aim for working 5 resources, lake, farm, 6 cottages, and 9 specialists at size 22, and while we are using it as a draft centre the city already has enough food to regrow every turn without any more farms. At deity we will generally be forced into emancipation relatively quickly so our cottages will grow.
3) Toku and shaka have 15gpt available between them that we can sell resources for, and should consider since we have a cashflow problem. Also cancel shaka corn trade, we have our own now
4) Where are we going to build Oxford? Washington I guess? Not ideal as we might want to draft out of it but I guess we have to compromise. Another reason to fight with Medieval troops instead of waiting for silly gunpowder.
5) suggest queueing Taj Mahal (17 turns) in Boston ahead of university before anyone else gets Nationalism, golden age with so many Plains Farms is amazing.
6) Our science rate is lousy because we are pretending to be a specialist economy while running an awe inspiring total of 6 specialists (and two of those are free from Great Library.) Can we build some cottages at Hyangsan and/or NY to tide us over until we get bio/rep?
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
- Joined
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acidsatyr AKA Seth
Mutineer AKA The Scorpion King
ThERat AKA Imhotep
Blake AKA Duamutef <<-------SKIP 1st time
Mark AKA Wepwawet <<------NEXT!!! 10 turns
Uberfish AKA Sobek
If you need skip not a big deal but say you need it.
theres 24 hours for got it. I'm strict about this because i need to know if player can play his turn.
After "got it" you can play your turn for 5 days , dont matter to me
Mutineer AKA The Scorpion King
ThERat AKA Imhotep
Blake AKA Duamutef <<-------SKIP 1st time
Mark AKA Wepwawet <<------NEXT!!! 10 turns
Uberfish AKA Sobek
If you need skip not a big deal but say you need it.
theres 24 hours for got it. I'm strict about this because i need to know if player can play his turn.
After "got it" you can play your turn for 5 days , dont matter to me
Pre turn: OK I like Ubers analysis. I think we need to fight before Grenis. At current sustainable rates of research they are 40 turns away. Of course it will be less than that but the Edu for war deal wont hold forever. However we dont have a sufficient army to now. We are bleeding cash @ 40% Science and there is some open space we need to grab that will cost us more.
Cancel corn deal with Shaka and give him fish for 7gpt. Toku gets sticky rice for his sushi for 8gpt. Switch Boston from University to settler in 4.
Switch Thebes to Treb
520: Thebes ->Market.
540: Shaka now has Gunpowder. And 280 gp: I am tempted to pull the trigger soon but will wait a few turns.
IT we get this. Shaka puts the hurt on Rangar. That music scared me.
560->600: Building troops and infra.
620: OK Rangar has Guns now. Time to go and to spread around education.
Edu->Alex for Guilds and 20gp. To Shaka for 270+ Map. To Rangar for 120. To Toku for 100gp.
660: Time to move. Declare on Wang and Rangar. Move a small exploratory force into Korea to see whats up. He has a fair force in Poyngyang which he sends out. I forgot the hawatchas have that 50% against meele units..
Raze Birka with only 2 axes amazingly loosing 1 CR2 Mace in the process. I should have used the trebs.
Anyway we are at war and should get a nice GA when the Taj completes. No one else has Nat. Rangar looks rather weak. Good luck. Enjoy.
Cancel corn deal with Shaka and give him fish for 7gpt. Toku gets sticky rice for his sushi for 8gpt. Switch Boston from University to settler in 4.
Switch Thebes to Treb
520: Thebes ->Market.
540: Shaka now has Gunpowder. And 280 gp: I am tempted to pull the trigger soon but will wait a few turns.
IT we get this. Shaka puts the hurt on Rangar. That music scared me.
560->600: Building troops and infra.
620: OK Rangar has Guns now. Time to go and to spread around education.
Edu->Alex for Guilds and 20gp. To Shaka for 270+ Map. To Rangar for 120. To Toku for 100gp.
660: Time to move. Declare on Wang and Rangar. Move a small exploratory force into Korea to see whats up. He has a fair force in Poyngyang which he sends out. I forgot the hawatchas have that 50% against meele units..
Raze Birka with only 2 axes amazingly loosing 1 CR2 Mace in the process. I should have used the trebs.
Anyway we are at war and should get a nice GA when the Taj completes. No one else has Nat. Rangar looks rather weak. Good luck. Enjoy.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
- Joined
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Ok this is it then.
acidsatyr AKA Seth
Mutineer AKA The Scorpion King
ThERat AKA Imhotep
Blake AKA Duamutef
Mark AKA Wepwawet
Uberfish AKA Sobek <<------NEXT!!! 10 turns
EDIT:
Took a quick loot at the save, evrything seems good. We should give Liberalism to Alex for Music + Banking + 20, with ragnar between us and shaka all trade routes internal, so we need mercantilism.
Btw, i dont know whats the problem with research really, we'r doing ok, evrything is as it should be, we'r using war momentum to fuel our research for now.
acidsatyr AKA Seth
Mutineer AKA The Scorpion King
ThERat AKA Imhotep
Blake AKA Duamutef
Mark AKA Wepwawet
Uberfish AKA Sobek <<------NEXT!!! 10 turns
EDIT:
Took a quick loot at the save, evrything seems good. We should give Liberalism to Alex for Music + Banking + 20, with ragnar between us and shaka all trade routes internal, so we need mercantilism.
Btw, i dont know whats the problem with research really, we'r doing ok, evrything is as it should be, we'r using war momentum to fuel our research for now.
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