Actual wonder placement rules

[hhhhhh]

Just saw something from the elimination thread that are locked now. Namely wonder placement rules are different to what the in-game description is. So what are the actual rules you have noticed?

Here are some quotes from the elimination thread.

The Coloseum was also easier to build at launch because wonders didn't require a district in the same city. I.e. you used to be able to slap an entertainment district down in a secondary city, and then build the Colosseum in the tile next to it owned by say your capital. Now you have to burn the district slot and build the Colo in the same city. I don't remember when that change got patched in

I know because today I built Oxford in my capital, thanks to being adjacent to a campus belonging to another city.

I think the rule is bent in the following way: as long as you have the district in the building city, you can build it adjacent to any district of the that type.

Or in other words, it is not a single requirement with two premises (i.e: you should have a *building* and be adjacent to it), but two separate requirements (i.e: you should have a *building* in the city + the wonder should be adjacent to (any) *building*)

And here's my personal favorite (which agrees with the last quote -- however I think in the case of Oxford University you don't need to have a campus in the city it is built, the in-game description says only "Must be built on Grassland or Plains adjacent to a Campus district with a University."):

To build the Great Lighthouse the game says "Must be built on the Coast, and adjacent to land and a Harbor district with a Lighthouse." But actually you can build it in a city with a harbor and lighthouse, but put it next to the harbor of another city, even if that harbor doesn't have a lighthouse in it. Can be useful if your harbor is surrounded by resources and reefs.

Depending on what people want to make of this, it is a perfect example of either a) complexity of the game; b) incapability of Civ QA team. Or maybe a mix of the two.

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And before I conclude, can anyone confirm if I can build Amundsen-Scott Research Station next to the campus (with a research lab) of another city (on a snow tile of course)? The in-game description is "It must be built on a Snow or Snow Hills tile next to a Campus with a Research Lab". I guess I can, just don't want to spend a lot of time to test this.

 

[679x]

I thought all wonders that require district adjacency also require that the district be in the same city that you are building the wonder in. At least, I haven't encountered any wonder that doesn't work like that. But, I don't think the tooltip actually says that it has to be adjacent to the district in the same city until you try to start building the wonder and it doesn't allow you because there is no available tile.

 

[hhhhhh]

I thought all wonders that require district adjacency also require that the district be in the same city that you are building the wonder in.

This is actually not the case for many wonders. One of Terracotta Army and Alhambra (probably Alhambra, I need to load a save to check) can be adjacent to the encampment of another city (which doesn't even need an encampment). Many wonders require a district and a building can be built next to district of another city like the Great Lighthouse example above. So it's complicated.

 

[enKage]

General rule AFAIK is if a wonder needs to be placed near a district, it can be build in a city. If a wonder needs a district and a specific building, things get more complicated.

Sankore - case:
Can be build next to a campus with an university of another city, what makes it far easier to place
BUT STILL you need a campus and university in a city building it.

The same with Colloseum, you can build it next to other Arena+EC but only if you have it too in a city buyuilding it

and so on

(if nothing has changed post Ethiopia update)

 

[hhhhhh]

Sankore - case:
Can be build next to a campus with an university of another city, what makes it far easier to place
BUT STILL you need a campus and university in a city building it.

Have you checked the Great Lighthouse example I mentioned above? Can you build it in a city with a Campus and a university, but next to the Campus of another city without university or even without library? It probably fits the GLH pattern.

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So I'm guessing for Amundsen-Scott Research Station I can build it in a city with a Campus and a research lab, but next to a bare campus of another city?

 

[leandrombraz]

b) incapability of Civ QA team.

QA is often blamed for things that aren't their fault. It's quite likely that they found this behavior, reported it, but it didn't get fixed, either because Firaxis don't see it as a priority or because they see it as acceptable behavior that isn't worth fixing. When a game has an issue, "QA didn't do their job" is the first thing that people bring up, but it's a lot more likely that QA found and reported the issue, which wasn't fixed for reasons, than that they didn't find it because of incompetence. Unless you have actual evidence that QA is at fault, don't assume they are. It sucks to do your job, then get blamed for not doing it because of something that's completely out of your control.

In this case, it's quite likely that Firaxis is well aware of that and just see it as acceptable behavior.

The Coloseum was also easier to build at launch because wonders didn't require a district in the same city.

IIRC the requirements to build it didn't change, what changed was the description, in a patch after I wrote this thread.

Correctly display when a Wonder needs an adjacent district. Clarified that the adjacent district requirement also must be a district owned by this city.

 

[enKage]

Have you checked the Great Lighthouse example I mentioned above? Can you build it in a city with a Campus and a university, but next to the Campus of another city without university or even without library? It probably fits the GLH pattern.

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So I'm guessing for Amundsen-Scott Research Station I can build it in a city with a Campus and a research lab, but next to a bare campus of another city?

I haven't checked it with GLH, but am sure about Sankore as iyt is a wonder I often build.
When I tried to place Sankore in a city with a campus but without university, but next to the campus with uni of another city, it was impossible. I had to buy University first even though this particular campus was not adjecent to preferable Sankore placement.

That was pre-Ethiopia though, as I have a detox from playing Cree since that time and only with Cree (and Persia) Sankore is my obligatory wonder. I am also pretty sure all land distroct wonders behaved the same, including Colloseum and Great Library I had similar issue earlier.

One thing I know you can never be sure of anything after every consequent update

Now I am very interested to check water based wonders too. and would do some test after completeing my another world conquest in EU4

 

[hhhhhh]

When I tried to place Sankore in a city with a campus but without university, but next to the campus with uni of another city, it was impossible. I had to buy University first even though this particular campus was not adjecent to preferable Sankore placement.

You misunderstood. I'm talking about the other way. City A has Campus and University. And you try to place University of Sankore in City A, but next to City B's bare Campus, without a University. That's what the Great Lighthouse case shows.

 

[679x]

This is actually not the case for many wonders. One of Terracotta Army and Alhambra (probably Alhambra, I need to load a save to check) can be adjacent to the encampment of another city (which doesn't even need an encampment). Many wonders require a district and a building can be built next to district of another city like the Great Lighthouse example above. So it's complicated.

That's so strange. I'll have to check next time I play but do any of the wonder descriptions say it must be placed next to something owned by that city? Are there any that say that but don't actually require it? It seems weird to me that some would require that and others wouldn't. I wonder why they designed it that way.

 

[hhhhhh]

That's so strange. I'll have to check next time I play but do any of the wonder descriptions say it must be placed next to something owned by that city? Are there any that say that but don't actually require it? It seems weird to me that some would require that and others wouldn't. I wonder why they designed it that way.

Good point. I just went through all the wonders on https://www.civilopedia.net/ under GS ruleset and it seems like none of them said that it need to be adjacent to the district and building of this city.

So can anyone really test the placement rule for Great Lighthouse, Great Library, Oxford University, University of Sankore, AS research station and Colosseum?

I won't be surprised if they can be placed in a city with the said district and buildings, but next to another city's district of the same kind without the buildings.

And in some cases it can be put near another city's district and building without having to have that district.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I usually have to deal with this every game with Broadway, Bolshoi, Oxford, Glib, Big Ben and Ruhr.

If it requires a district building, you must have it in the city itself. You cannot build Big Ben, for example, without a bank, in the city that builds it. If you're using a neighboring city, the actual contents of THAT district is irrelevant. I've built many empty districts for this purpose. You certainly cannot build Bolshoi or Broadway without a TS in the building city. Amundsen-Scott I'm pretty sure requires a campus, but to be fair I've never thought of not building a campus.

I have never tried this with Colosseum, because it's kinda impractical to build 2 ECs that fast.

Anyhow, example:

Big Ben and University of Sankore are using neighboring city's districts. Sankore was started long before that crappy city to the NE had a library.

I was considering using Changsha to make an IZ so I can build the useless Ruhr Valley in the South, but there was no time for that and not worth taking apart the Great Wall there.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Found a reddit post which confirms that the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus doesn't follow the "same city" rule as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/ip2tsu/this_city_doesnt_own_this_harbor_yet_it_can_build/

 

[agonistes]

QA is often blamed for things that aren't their fault. It's quite likely that they found this behavior, reported it, but it didn't get fixed, either because Firaxis don't see it as a priority or because they see it as acceptable behavior that isn't worth fixing. When a game has an issue, "QA didn't do their job" is the first thing that people bring up, but it's a lot more likely that QA found and reported the issue, which wasn't fixed for reasons, than that they didn't find it because of incompetence. Unless you have actual evidence that QA is at fault, don't assume they are. It sucks to do your job, then get blamed for not doing it because of something that's completely out of your control.

In this case, it's quite likely that Firaxis is well aware of that and just see it as acceptable behavior.



IIRC the requirements to build it didn't change, what changed was the description, in a patch after I wrote this thread.

Colosseum rule changed. I build it every game, and was surprised when suddenly I couldn’t use another city’s district.

I haven’t tested if you can use another city’s district for it provided the building city at least has the district and arena somewhere.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Update:

As of the current version of NFP, none of what I detailed above works anymore. RIP.

 

[The Highwayman]

I wonder if Terracotta Army still works. In my Gran Columbia game (albeit last summer) I was able to build it in a city that had an encampment, but next to a different city's encampment.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Something to consider while trying to gather a few facts about Wonders "Placement rules"... this comprehensive GFX reference that offers many details with mostly valid hints. Not sure if it is ALL recent enough but from what i could detect in the symbolic structure(s) -- these are exposing rational analytics.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fGogYihWTnCg4GGTyMXwBJRtoHH35NmG/view