Additional Late Game Buildings

Can we do with something other than amusement park? They are hardly critical infrastructure like any other building is, and VP as a whole was a step for more serious grand-strategy style with more realistic tech, military supply and happiness factors. For example stadiums are part of economically and culturally important music industry while amusement parks strikes me as just lol addition
I somewhat agree, although we already have zoos and circuses. Amusement Parks are a modern day version of the circus. The mechanics of the proposal don't really fit for an amusement park compared to a visitor centre:
A tourist information center, providing visitors to a location with information on the area's attractions, lodgings, maps, and other items relevant to tourism. Often, these centers are operated at the airport or other port of entry, by the local government or chamber of commerce. Often a visitor center is called simply an information center.
But we have the art for amusement park so...

For example moving supermarket intead, which is just awful with that modern American 60s icon in Renaissance, and replacing it with something time-consistent like lazaret which were widespread at that time and crucial in containment of epidemics, the most famous perhaps being Venetian one and later Ellis Island. It also aligns perfectly with food as health and higiene resource, that leads to more population, as is implied with hospital, medical lab, and aqueduct already.
We need someone willing to produce art for any suggestions.
 
I had suggested a pharmacy or apothecary replace the Grocer in that slot, if we were to move the Grocer back.
Here's an icon Sukritact made for an apothecary building for JFD's cities in development mod:
Apothecary.png
 
Can we do with something other than amusement park? They are hardly critical infrastructure like any other building is, and VP as a whole was a step for more serious grand-strategy style with more realistic tech, military supply and happiness factors. For example stadiums are part of economically and culturally important music industry while amusement parks strikes me as just lol addition.

For example moving supermarket intead, which is just awful with that modern American 60s icon in Renaissance, and replacing it with something time-consistent like lazaret which were widespread at that time and crucial in containment of epidemics, the most famous perhaps being Venetian one and later Ellis Island. It also aligns perfectly with food as health and higiene resource, that leads to more population, as is implied with hospital, medical lab, and aqueduct already.

I can write the description to the building if people like this idea.

How is an amusement park less important than Zoo or Circus? I'd consider to visit a city with a great amusement park, while supermarket is not enough reason to.
 
How is an amusement park less important than Zoo or Circus? I'd consider to visit a city with a great amusement park, while supermarket is not enough reason to.
He isn't suggesting the supermarket as a tourist destination, just as an atomic era building.
 
Oil Refinery (New Building)
Limit 3
Available at: Computers
Requires River or Coast (includes Lake as normal)
Cost: 2500 (same as nuclear power plant)
Maintenance: 10
+2 oil
+10 production
-5% culture

This is supposed to emulate large-scale refineries like Baytown or Jamnagar, which is why the small limit and the requirement of a water source. Large-scale operations were also extremely difficult without the use of automation (and therefore computers).

The goal is to find a reason not to build this in your capital, currently with the -% culture as a stand-in. You really don't want one of these near a cultural centre. Negative happiness doesn't work since the Capital is the best situated to be able to absorb it.

On a side note, it's really difficult to think of additional buildings that would fit anywhere on the atomic tech tree outside of Computers, Electonics, and Refrigeration.
 
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Oil Refinery (New Building)
Limit 3
Available at: Computers
Requires River or Coast
Cost: 2500 (same as nuclear power plant)
Maintenance: 10
+2 oil
+10 production
-5% culture

This is supposed to emulate large-scale refineries like Baytown or Jamnagar, which is why the small limit and the requirement of a water source. Large-scale operations were also extremely difficult without the use of automation (and therefore computers).

The goal is to find a reason not to build this in your capital, currently with the -% culture as a stand-in. You really don't want one of these near a cultural centre. Negative happiness doesn't work since the Capital is the best situated to be able to absorb it.

On a side note, it's really difficult to think of additional buildings that would fit anywhere on the atomic tech tree outside of Computers, Electonics, and Refrigeration.

I think we are overthinking this one. We don't really need a terrain requirement at this point in the game, it doesn't really balance anything and it doesn't make flavor sense. Pipelines can get oil wherever we need it to go, we don't have to be geographically restricted that late in the game.

I think the -5% culture and +10 production can be tossed. I respect the desire to not build things in the capital....but honestly its a bad driver on a new building. Most special buildings get built in the capital....that's a fact of life in Civ 5, trying to change it now on a single building is folly. Further, the +10 prod is such a drop in the bucket at this point I wouldn't even waste the text.


I think you keep things dirt simple. Its an expensive building you build if you need oil....done and done.
 
I agree. -5% culture doesn't make sense anyway. Why is the goal to not build it in the capital?
 
I think we are overthinking this one. We don't really need a terrain requirement at this point in the game, it doesn't really balance anything and it doesn't make flavor sense. Pipelines can get oil wherever we need it to go, we don't have to be geographically restricted that late in the game.

I think the -5% culture and +10 production can be tossed. I respect the desire to not build things in the capital....but honestly its a bad driver on a new building. Most special buildings get built in the capital....that's a fact of life in Civ 5, trying to change it now on a single building is folly. Further, the +10 prod is such a drop in the bucket at this point I wouldn't even waste the text.


I think you keep things dirt simple. Its an expensive building you build if you need oil....done and done.
I respect your opinion mechanically, but modern oil refineries require so much water in processing that they are always on the ocean or another relevant source of water. It has very little to do with how oil is being transported.

Otherwise, I don't want to have yet another building that is just used to fill up the queue. Restrictions breed decision making.
 
I don’t get why we should want a Refinery building and an Oil Refinery building. Just add 1 oil to the existing refinery, increase the production and move it to a different tech if need be. Plastics seems like an appropriate tech
 
Otherwise, I don't want to have yet another building that is just used to fill up the queue. Restrictions breed decision making.
Cost also "breeds" decision making. If it's cost too much while giving too little, then it's better not to build it. That'd depend how bad you need oil in this case.
 
I wouldn't spend production this late in the game just for oil unless I absolutely need it.
 
I wouldn't spend production this late in the game just for oil unless I absolutely need it.

that is the point of all the refineries. They are not meant to be core buildings, but safety values used when truly needed.
 
I respect your opinion mechanically, but modern oil refineries require so much water in processing that they are always on the ocean or another relevant source of water. It has very little to do with how oil is being transported.

Otherwise, I don't want to have yet another building that is just used to fill up the queue. Restrictions breed decision making.

Your point about water is correct. However i disagree with your notion that any decision making is happening here due to restriction. Your city locations have been set at this point in the game for a very long time, and we can’t change them now.

no one is going to decide their city locations based on an extreme late game building like this. So there is no decision point here.

All a restriction does is increase the chance that a civ that would actually make use of this building cannot due to decisions made hundreds of turns ago.

if it helps the flavor, consider how large even a single hex in the game really is, the city space can be hundreds of miles of “real territory”, and so large bodies of water could still exist and not be a lake hex on the map.
 
Late game buildings need some flashy late game mechanics. I was thinking about @HungryForFood's America/FDR civ that gives :c5culture:culture in all cities on empire for every GPTile on empire. There is also this lua method:
Code:
CountAllImprovement(ImprovementType, OnlyCreated) :: Counts the number of plots with the specified improvement within the player's territory. Can be toggled to count only the improvements created by this player.
So VP already has a method where it can count all the improvements that you own, and Hungry made a Trait in the DLL that uses this method to count GPTiles. Maybe something similar could be done for 1-2 late game buildings?

Here's my proposals:
Old Agribusiness:
+5:c5food:
+2:c5production::c5gold: to farms near this city
10% of :c5food: Food created by the City counts as :c5gold:Gold Per Turn.
Requires 2 horses

New Agribusiness
+1:c5production::c5gold: to farms near this city
+1:c5food: in this city for every Farm on Empire
Requires 2 horses

Supermarket:

Available at Refrigeration
+3:c5food:
10% of :c5food: Food created by the City counts as :c5gold:Gold Per Turn.
+1:c5food: and :c5gold: in this city for every Plantation, Pasture, Camp, and Fishing Boat on Empire
2 Specialists in this City do not generate :c5unhappy:Unhappiness from Urbanization

A building ability like that would also make for a great unique national wonder ability.
 
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New Agribusiness
+1:c5production::c5gold: to farms near this city
+1:c5food: in this city for every Farm on Empire
Requires 2 horses

I would swap the food and gold. Let the food be local (which is less valuable) and the gold global (which is more valuable)
 
I would swap the food and gold. Let the food be local (which is less valuable) and the gold global (which is more valuable)
I think that raises the gold median even more, resulting in more poverty for those without horses. At least food can be compensated by working more farms/mines.
 
Aren't those buildings only really useful for wide civs? It works well for GPTI, because those are limited just the same for either tall/wide.
 
I think that raises the gold median even more, resulting in more poverty for those without horses. At least food can be compensated by working more farms/mines.

Any boost to the building is going to increase happiness imbalance to those without horses, that is inevitable if you make changes to it.
 
I would swap the food and gold. Let the food be local (which is less valuable) and the gold global (which is more valuable)
Sure, you and @Rekk are of the same opinion then. An alternative I posted on the discord:

Agribusiness:
+1 :c5production::c5food: to farms near this city
+1 :c5gold:in this city for every Farm on Empire
10% of :c5food:Food created by the City counts as :c5gold:Gold Per Turn.
Requires 2 horses

Supermarket:
Available at Refrigeration
+1:c5food:in this city for every Farm, Plantation, Pasture, Camp, and Fishing Boat on Empire
2 Specialists in this City do not generate :c5unhappy: Unhappiness from Urbanization
+200% :c5gold:Gold from :c5trade:City Connections in this city

The thing I wanted to emphasize was the idea of the mechanic. If we liked the idea of buildings that gave you a yield for a global improvement count, I think there's all sorts of ways that could be used.
Several policies and abilities already use this improvement on empire count code: Freedom uses it for Towns = Franchises, and the The Holy Sites/Landmarks = WC votes belief.
 
If we liked the idea of buildings that gave you a yield for a global improvement count, I think there's all sorts of ways that could be used.
Several policies and abilities already use this improvement on empire count code: Freedom uses it for Towns = Franchises, and the The Holy Sites/Landmarks = WC votes belief.

I can see the mechanic more for GPTIs and the like, as those scale lightly, and don't tend to increase hugely with city count.

Regular tiles is likely to be problematic. Lets look at the simple +1 gold per tile idea. I mean it wouldn't be hard at all for a wide city to have 30 farms across all of its cities, that would be +30 gold per city, a very high amount.

I don't know if you could ever balance that properly.

Now benefits for all GPTIs, I think that could be doable.
 
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