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Admin Proposal Vote

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by YossarianLives, Mar 20, 2013.

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Would you like Team CFC to propose that Plako be added as admin for this game?

Poll closed Mar 25, 2013.
  1. I would like Team CFC to propose that Plako be added as admin for this game

    5 vote(s)
    41.7%
  2. I would not like Team CFC to propose that Plako be added as admin for this game

    4 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. I abstain / I have no opinion

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    This poll is private and will be open for 5 days. Arguments for both sides of this poll can be found in the Timer Discussion thread.

    If option 1 wins, I will pm r_rolo1 the above message, and if he approves, Team CFC will propose that Plako be added as an Admin for this game. If option 2 wins the message will not be sent, and Team CFC will not make this proposal in the public thread. If there are not at least 6 votes for option 1 and option 2 combined, then option 2 wins by default.
     
  2. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Why are you proposing Plako?
     
  3. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Because he created the map, he has access to the private forums of several teams, and he has been following the game since it started. He also has a reputation for being very fair, and helped in the organization of the game a little bit.

    If there is anyone else we could ask who we know would pay attention to the game and.get back to us with timely admin decisions, it doesn't need to be Plako.
     
  4. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    As you already know, I am against replacing the admin, r_rolo.

    But TBH I'm a little confused by this :crazyeye:. I thought you said in this post that Plako already refused the job of co-admin??

    So what are we voting on?:(

    Also, you say in your post that you changed the language of the proposal to something different than what we were discussing in the thread. So am also a little confused about why you would post a poll and say you will act on the poll result when we havent even discussed the proposal you are asking for a vote on. How is it different from the prior one? Why the changes? Shouldn't we spend some time discussing it first before polling it?

    Also, I wonder if posting a poll on something that isnt getting much discussion is a sound approach? I mean if no one is talking about it, that could be an indication that most people aren't interested in doing it right?

    I mean if we had a lot of interest in replacing r_rolo, AND alot of opposition then I could see the need for a poll. But in this situation it just seems like there just isn't much interest in the subject generally. I don't see what the urgent need for a 96 hour poll. That's like what? 3 Turns? I could see if we were racing to Liberalism or something and we needed to make a quick decision in a couple turns, but in this situation, why the urgency?

    Anyway, Just my two cents.
     
  5. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    I must admit, I'm a little intimidated to be on the opposide side of an argument as the great lawyer Sommerswerd, but here goes! Starting with the usual disclosures that none if this is personal, I take no offense to anything said, etc. Also, I really do want to thank r_rolo for volunteering to admin, this is nothing against him, and I totally get that it's not easy to follow this game as closely as I think is necessary to be effective in the admin role.

    Understood. And I understand some of your concerns about asking Plako to take over the job. However, I disagree that r_rolo's absense is not potentially game-breaking. If we cannot continue playing because we are waiting on an admin decision, and the admin does not even acknowledge that a request has been made for several weeks, this game will die. So far, r_rolo's absence has just been an inconvenience, but there are many examples that would require a pause until a decision has been made. If we do not want to ask Plako to take over, then we need to come up with some other way to keep this game moving given the current lack of a present admin.

    Right, but as you said in this post, asking Plako to help would effectively make him the sole admin. It was your opinion that since r_rolo is already taking so long to respond to requests, if we were to appoint a "back-up", he wouldn't bother to respond at all. So, the conversation is no longer whether Plako would be a co-admin, but whether he will take over as admin.

    We're voting on whether the team as a whole thinks it would be a good idea to propose to the other teams that Plako be added as an admin so he can respond to our requests and make admin decisions in a timely manner.

    The only change to my suggested PM, as I explained in the post that you linked, is that instead of asking if Plako can be a co-admin, we are asking if Plako can be a full admin to this game. As you stated, this will probably effectively mean that r_rolo is no longer making admin decisions.

    I thought about that, which was why I wanted to make sure I included a caveat to the poll that if not enough team members have an opinion one way or the other, then we won't take any action.

    I think we've established that on this team, silence means consent. Are you instead implying that if the team leader and deputy leader both agree on a course of action, but not enough members of the team comment about it, then we should drop it? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I could use your same argument to say that since not enough team members commented, we should not hold a poll, but instead just do what the team leader and deputy leader are recommeding without further team input. But I wanted to make sure everyone on the team had an opportunity to express their opinion about this.

    I understand your concern about feeling rushed. Since all my previous polls had been up for 3 days, I actually thought I was giving us extra time to discuss, think about it, and then make an informed decision. If we want to take more than 5 days to discuss this, I don't see a problem with it. However, in under 24 hours we've already gotten 7 votes in the poll, which is a higher number of team members than we get commenting on most issues.

    Very glad to get your two cents, and glad to see you posting more in general recently. Lively discussion is what these games are all about! Anything that gets more team members involved is a good thing, imho.
     
  6. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    I don't think it is about replacing r_rolo but giving him an extra hand in the process.
     
  7. Majic

    Majic Warlord

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    My opinion is that waiting for an admin to make a decision is one of the most boring things you can do in a game of civ. Hence, I vote for a more active admin.
     
  8. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Actually no its not. This is what Yossa just said:
    BTW, Classy's post above is EXACTLY my point about why this poll is premature and misleading. People are voting in the poll assuming that it about one thing when in reality it is about something else. That is why I felt the poll was premature. I hope that is obvious to you now Yossa:)
    Never been accused of being a "Great Lawyer" before... Is that like a Great Scientist since they come from Libraries and Universities? Or more like a Great Spy maybe, since you get :espionage: from courthouses and jails. I think the Corporation exec look the most like lawyers... :lol:
     
  9. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    LOL, GL's (Great Lawyer's) effect beside from being able to start a Golden Age must be the ability to turn an enemy in to loyal friend while telling him to attack his ex-best friend team in the game :D
     
  10. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Rather than do my usual long-a$$ quote and respond (since I already made my argument in the other thread) I will just give three points:

    1. CFC Asking for an RB player to be apointed admin undermines our efforts to create an anti-RB alliance- We are in the middle of trying to build an anti-RB alliance. CP is already suspicious of us being too cozy with RB and now we propose to make an RB player the game admin??? WTF?!? How do you think that will be percieved by other teams like CP and CivFr? There will be players that immediately suspect that we are in cahoots with RB. Perception is critical here. IMO this admin thing is not worth the risk of negative perception, especially not now, while we are in the middle of trying to get an anti-RB alliance off the ground. Can't we at least wait until AFTER RB is defeated?

    If someone on one of the other teams wants to propose that Plako be made the new admin fine, we can vote on it. But this proposal can not, MUST NOT come from us. It will raise doubts in our potential allies' minds and potentially ruin our chances to form an alliance to defeat RB and WE WILL LOSE. In other words... Is this really worth losing the game over? To get emails responded to faster?

    2. All this stuff about slow admin breaking the game is theoretical. The game is not being held up now so there is no issue now, and thus no need to vote on this now. Can't we just wait until there is an actual issue that urgently needs admin action? If at that time, r_rolo is non-responsive then all the teams can vote to appoint a new admin. Issue solved. At this point the issue is nothing more than a straw man, because the game is not being actually held up by the admin. I say again, why the urgency?? Where is the fire?

    3. I can say from experience, hosting/admining games that I am playing and games I am not playing that the TRUE gamebreaking/player losing/rage-quit causing thing is players having a negative perception about the admins objectivity. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't let impatience over emails let this issue creep into the game, because it is a game killer.

    I can also say from experience, hosting/admining games that I am playing and games I am not playing, that it is MUCH MUCH more challenging both to be careful about objectivity as well as preserve the PERCEPTION of objectivity the more involved you are in the game. I actually prefer that r_rolo is somewhat removed from the action because we know his decisions are never influenced by a subconcious personal stake in what is going on. The fact that Plako is following the game closely and lurking all the treads makes him a ripe target for accusations of bias, because he knows very well what everyones plans are and what is at stake in any particular decision. Again, I want to stress that Plako's honorable reputation with those who know him will be irrelevant to some players, especially those that dont know him. All it takes to break the game is negative PERCEPTION.
     
  11. Majic

    Majic Warlord

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    I don't agree with you Sommer. =) I find all this admin-talk a meta game issue, and I prefer a guy who knows what happens ingame to rule rather than someone who doesn't care or doesn't have time or doesn't know what to rule about.

    There is no rush right now, but when something comes up, I rather not wait a week or two for some ruling if someone requests a pause or a reload or whatever. That's my idea of what kills a game.

    Do we even know if Plako is willing? Is there someone else?
     
  12. dratboy

    dratboy Chieftain

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    I think a Great Lawyer would be a terrible random event where an AI unit you can't control shows up and starts suing the government. Johnny Cochrane has converted all your hammers into red tape for this turn...

    You could only kill him by converting to Police State.
     
  13. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    :lmao: Remember in Civ 1 (or was it Civ 2) how the Senate would keep overruling you anytime you tried to go to War? :rotfl:
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    I just re-read this and I have to point out that you're mixing apples and oranges here. The "course of action" that our team takes in-game where there is a finite turn timer, or in diplo when there are deadlines involved and initiative to sieze is a totally different situation from this. As majic correctly points out this is a "meta-game" thing. Im also pretty sure you yourself are fully aware that there is a clear distinction here between changing the admin and moving units in-game. So I wonder if you're just poking fun, or if this was intended as a serious analogy:confused:

    Also what do you mean by "leader and deputy leader agree on a course of action"? You mean as applied to this situation? You're saying 2metra agrees with replacing r_rolo as admin? Are you sure about that? At least that what it seems that you are implying... I just wanted clarification on that.
     
  15. dratboy

    dratboy Chieftain

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    UGH! I do remember that! Must have been Civ 2, as I never played Civ 1. I also miss the little videos of advisors and their wardrobe changes as you entered a new era.
     
  16. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Yeah wardrobe (and background scenery) changes FTW!!:trophy:

    I wish and wish they put that back in the next version of Civ. Music changes are awesome in this one... Catherine's modern music is killer:rockon:
     
  17. Arkipeller

    Arkipeller Ancient of Lore

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    I would usually shut my trap in these debates, but suggest the we do neither. Make a public thread and then i suggest the team abstains. Abstaining a vote and make the other teams choose seems a better option. We send less signs to other teams and we got members that approve of both situations. We will survive and we make a great team no matter if Plako will be s teaming bastard or a fair judge.
     
  18. Arkipeller

    Arkipeller Ancient of Lore

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    It is when you choose democracy in both civ2 and civRevolution (xbox)
     

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