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AI advantages on Immortal level?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Drakken, Sep 20, 2007.

  1. Drakken

    Drakken Warlord

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    Please God help me to understand what is going on with Immortal level in this game. What are all the numerical advantages the AI has. I am ready to kill someone because there is no damn information on any of the different difficulty levels and what the AI gets in the game. How the hell am I supposed to plan out my strategy in the game if there is absolutely no way to know what is going on! This is a major flaw in Civ.
     
  2. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Just compare the benefits you get on Noble to the ones you get on Immortal... And I think the AI gets free units too. I'm sure someone knows exactly.
     
  3. Drakken

    Drakken Warlord

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    Sorry but that doesn't tell me anything. When I go to immortal I get penalties and the AI gets bonuses. Ingame I can deduce some of my penalties and can plan accordingly. There is no way to find what the other values are though. This is the info I need.
     
  4. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    Search the game files for one that's called (something)HandicapInfos.xml. This file contains all the bonuses for all the different difficulty levels. Most of the bonuses are named in a way that makes their interpretation rather obvious. I don't have the game here so I can't tell you exactly where to find the file, but perhaps someone else can help out with that.
     
  5. BlastDuke

    BlastDuke Always hungry

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    In fact, There IS a way to know whats going on. Just look at "[yourpath]\Civilization4\Beyond the Sword\Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo.xml"
    I admit that there is no way to see these data in-game, but please stop bashing Civ4/Firaxis about major flaws where there are none (at least here).
    I am posting here the contents of my file, since it is unaltered it should be the same for you:

    Spoiler :
    <HandicapInfo>
    <Type>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</Type>
    <Description>TXT_KEY_HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</Description>
    <Help>TXT_KEY_HANDICAP_IMMORTAL_HELP</Help>
    <iFreeWinsVsBarbs>0</iFreeWinsVsBarbs>
    <iAnimalAttackProb>90</iAnimalAttackProb>
    <iStartingLocPercent>80</iStartingLocPercent>
    <iAdvancedStartPointsMod>80</iAdvancedStartPointsMod>
    <iGold>0</iGold>
    <iFreeUnits>2</iFreeUnits>
    <iUnitCostPercent>90</iUnitCostPercent>
    <iResearchPercent>125</iResearchPercent>
    <iDistanceMaintenancePercent>100</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
    <iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>95</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
    <iMaxNumCitiesMaintenance>7</iMaxNumCitiesMaintenance>
    <iColonyMaintenancePercent>140</iColonyMaintenancePercent>
    <iMaxColonyMaintenance>100</iMaxColonyMaintenance>
    <iCorporationMaintenancePercent>140</iCorporationMaintenancePercent>
    <iCivicUpkeepPercent>100</iCivicUpkeepPercent>
    <iInflationPercent>100</iInflationPercent>
    <iHealthBonus>2</iHealthBonus>
    <iHappyBonus>4</iHappyBonus>
    <iAttitudeChange>-1</iAttitudeChange>
    <iNoTechTradeModifier>30</iNoTechTradeModifier>
    <iTechTradeKnownModifier>0</iTechTradeKnownModifier>
    <iUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal>25</iUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal>
    <iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianUnit>30</iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianUnit>
    <iUnownedWaterTilesPerBarbarianUnit>1200</iUnownedWaterTilesPerBarbarianUnit>
    <iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianCity>90</iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianCity>
    <iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed>15</iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed>
    <iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed>20</iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed>
    <iBarbarianCityCreationProb>8</iBarbarianCityCreationProb>
    <iAnimalBonus>-5</iAnimalBonus>
    <iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
    <iAIAnimalBonus>-40</iAIAnimalBonus>
    <iAIBarbarianBonus>-25</iAIBarbarianBonus>
    <iStartingDefenseUnits>0</iStartingDefenseUnits>
    <iStartingWorkerUnits>0</iStartingWorkerUnits>
    <iStartingExploreUnits>0</iStartingExploreUnits>
    <iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>0</iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>
    <iAIStartingDefenseUnits>3</iAIStartingDefenseUnits>
    <iAIStartingWorkerUnits>1</iAIStartingWorkerUnits>
    <iAIStartingExploreUnits>1</iAIStartingExploreUnits>
    <iBarbarianDefenders>4</iBarbarianDefenders>
    <iAIDeclareWarProb>100</iAIDeclareWarProb>
    <iAIWorkRateModifier>75</iAIWorkRateModifier>
    <iAIGrowthPercent>85</iAIGrowthPercent>
    <iAITrainPercent>80</iAITrainPercent>
    <iAIWorldTrainPercent>100</iAIWorldTrainPercent>
    <iAIConstructPercent>80</iAIConstructPercent>
    <iAIWorldConstructPercent>100</iAIWorldConstructPercent>
    <iAICreatePercent>80</iAICreatePercent>
    <iAIWorldCreatePercent>100</iAIWorldCreatePercent>
    <iAICivicUpkeepPercent>80</iAICivicUpkeepPercent>
    <iAIUnitCostPercent>80</iAIUnitCostPercent>
    <iAIUnitSupplyPercent>50</iAIUnitSupplyPercent>
    <iAIUnitUpgradePercent>50</iAIUnitUpgradePercent>
    <iAIInflationPercent>80</iAIInflationPercent>
    <iAIWarWearinessPercent>60</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
    <iAIPerEraModifier>-4</iAIPerEraModifier>
    <iAIAdvancedStartPercent>150</iAIAdvancedStartPercent>
    <Goodies>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_SCOUT</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_HEALING</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
    <GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
    </Goodies>
    <FreeTechs/>
    <AIFreeTechs>
    <FreeTech>
    <TechType>TECH_AGRICULTURE</TechType>
    <bFreeTech>1</bFreeTech>
    </FreeTech>
    <FreeTech>
    <TechType>TECH_HUNTING</TechType>
    <bFreeTech>1</bFreeTech>
    </FreeTech>
    <FreeTech>
    <TechType>TECH_ARCHERY</TechType>
    <bFreeTech>1</bFreeTech>
    </FreeTech>
    </AIFreeTechs>
    </HandicapInfo>
     
  6. PibbZ

    PibbZ Paladin

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    Thats nice bonuses, 10% less unit cost, 125% research, 2 health, 4 happiness, 2 free units and archery from the beginning :O
     
  7. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Uh, yes it does tell you something... Go into your city menu and check happiness and health bonus by putting your cursor over them. You'll see that part of the bonus is listed as coming from difficulty. On Noble, the bonus is very large - on Immortal, the bonus is very small. What's more, check how far away you can build a city at the start and what those costs are relative to distance... Compare it on the two difficulty levels and you'll have more of the information you're looking for.

    The CPU is always on Noble difficulty. The bonuses that you get on Noble are largely the bonuses the the CPU gets, and the difference between you on Noble and you on Immortal will tell you much about the CPU's bonus.
     
  8. Dan Quale

    Dan Quale Prince

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    Feb 26, 2007
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    Just make more axemens then them. Thats what I do and it works. After axemens, I make more of something else than them. If they have 15 archers and I have 35 swordsman +20 cats I have the advantage.

    Its all very simple really.
     
  9. BenniusCaesar

    BenniusCaesar Warlord

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    I thought one of the major features of civ has always been that the civilopedia and the manual deliberatlely provide only skeleton information on how things are calculated - you're supposed to figure it out by playing.
     
  10. Boodler

    Boodler Chieftain

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  11. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    They determine the probabilities of the different results from popping a goody hut. The game throws a 20-sided die and then picks one of the 20 results of the list. It might be a bit more intricate than that (scouts get better chances for good results, for example), but that's the gist of it.
     
  12. MrPopov

    MrPopov King

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    my guess is that it's like each instance of the goody type is like 1 ball in a hat. When you grab a goody hut you get to pick 1 ball from the hat, so the more GOODY_BARBARIANS there are, the more likely you are to grab that ball from the hat.

    there are only 2 GOODY_TECHs so that means you have a 2 in 20 (or 1 in 10) chance to have a free tech when you grab a goody hut. I suppose scouts and explorers just ignore the barbarian choices, so it would become 2 in 13 chance.
     
  13. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    You're reading the wrong bit of the file for AI bonuses over human players. The unit cost (90%) and research (125%) indicate the base unit cost and beaker cost of tech at Immortal level for all player;. i.e. techs cost more at Immortal than noble for all players.

    The AI bonuses in these areas over the human are given in the AIUnitcost line, and so on. So at Immortal base unit costs are 90% what they'd be at Deity for all players, and all AIs only pay 80% of that base amount.

    So (and I'm not claiming this is a complete list, but based on the XML file), the AI bonuses are:

    1)The AI research and production costs are only 80% of the human player's (this is by far the most important bonus).

    2)The AI starts with three archers, a worker and a scout in addition to its normal units

    3)All AI start with Agriculture, Hunting and Archery on top of their normal starting tech.

    4)AI only pays 80% of the civic upkeep costs and unit upkeep costs.

    5)AI only pays 50% of the unit upgrade and unit supply costs

    6)AI inflation is only 80% of that of the human player

    7)AI units get a 35% higher bonus against animals, and 25% higher against barbarians than the human player's.

    8)AI war weariness is only 60% that of the human player

    9)All AIs start with 10 free hammers in their first city

    10)All AI's get a concealed -1 to diplomatic relations with the human player

    I may have missed one or two small items. AIs definitely do not have higher health and happiness levels than the human player.
     
  14. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    By looking at the XML file, I think that research is 25% more expensive for humans, not 20% cheaper for the AI
     
  15. JFLNYC

    JFLNYC Producer

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    You realize, of course, these are the same thing. E.g., if the unit cost is normally 5 for humans and it's 20% less for AI's, that would make it 4 for AI's. The cost for humans is, therefore, 25% more than for AI's (5 is 25% more than 4). 5 is 25% more than 4 and 4 is 20% less than 5.
     
  16. PibbZ

    PibbZ Paladin

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    Aha, thanks for explaining :) Im not a very experienced xml reader :lol:
     
  17. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    If a tech costs 1.000 beackers then it is 1.250 for humans or 800 for AI as you put it...not the same.

    But it is also different costing less for the AI and costing more for you.

    If it was costing less for the AI they would value the techs less. So for example a tech you would get from bulbing you would not be able to exchange it the same way
     
  18. JFLNYC

    JFLNYC Producer

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    No. You misunderstand. In your scenario there is both a diminution for the the AI and an increase for humans. That's not how it works. It's either one or the other. So, in your example, (according to the handicap info above) if the cost is 1000 beakers, it's 1250 for humans and 1000 for the AI. 1250 is 25% more than 1000 and 1000 is 20% less than 1250. Same thing. The handicap info expresses it as a 25% increase for humans. MrCyncial simply chose it's alternate expression: 20% less for the AI.
     
  19. jpinard

    jpinard Martian

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    Why would Firaxis not adjust the cost of Supplies and Unit Upgrades for the player on the Settler difficutly level? It's the same on all difficulty levels.

    Is it possible you've been misinterpreting what the iAIUnitSupplyPercent and iAIUnitUpgradePercent rate are?

    Could iAIUnitUpgradePercent actually be the number of units to be upgraded by the AI? And therefore 50% makes sense for all difficulty levels?

    I just don't understand why the AI would need a 50% bonus over the human player on the easiest difficutly level. Also - what exactly is supply? Where is that value used?
     
  20. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

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    that "why even at settler" question comes up a lot. my theory is: the human can figure out what sort of treasury he/she wants to keep around for unit upgrades and other stuff. programming the AI to save X amount in the treasury for stuff like that would be difficult. instead, they get this advantage to semi-counter that. that's my theory, not to be confused with actual fact. i can't code so i'm just assuming that would be a big fat pain to program.

    when you check F2 to see your total income, you'll see a "Unit Supply" line. you (and the AI) pay a certain amount for each unit that's not in your cultural borders, over the "supply for X units is free" number.
     

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