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AI artillery always survives?

MERslinger

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 13, 2023
Messages
1
I love civilization IV. I feel like the AI survives when attacking against odds but i am able to chalk it up to my own bad math and the fallacy where the outliers just stand out so i think they happen to often. I have been playing Beyond the sword almost exclusively for awhile now. I can not find any logic to ignore the fact tha AI artillery always survives. I have had this feeling for awhile and after scouring the inter webs for other complaints and not finding anything i always just assume it is in my head. Today i have now watched 6 trebuchets attack rifleman and not a sinlge one was destroyed. One had 20% attack 3 with 10% and 1 with no attack bonus. Later i watched 10 artillery pieces, again 2 with 20% bonus attack the rest 10% or less attack a well rounded defense of 12 units including 4 infantry with 75% defense bonuses and others with 3 first strike upgrades with less collateral damage and a 2 machine guns with 50% defnse upgrade (upgraded units i now MG cant get defense.) Not a single kill on the artillery. I than put 12 machine guns in city all with 3 first strike upgrades again 10 artillery pices not a single *snip* kill. I mean i lose 3 out of 5 trebuchets attacking swordsmen and longbowman...rightyful so but its consistent. What the heck am i supposed to do with this logic please tell me i am missing something......

Moderator Action: Moved thread from Civ 6 GD. Edited post to remove inappropriate language. ~ LK
 
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You are missing the fact that artillery are siege weapons and can't kill units, they're there to soften cities or stacks of units before your regular troops move in for the kill. You can throw 1000 trebuchets at a warrior and he will survive ......
 
You are missing the fact that artillery are siege weapons and can't kill units, they're there to soften cities or stacks of units before your regular troops move in for the kill. You can throw 1000 trebuchets at a warrior and he will survive ......
I think you misunderstood OPs problem, it's that AI gets lucky and doesn't lose their arty or sige units on their attacks.

As for OP, it must be just getting unlucky, you could test it in worldbuilder by giving AI some stack with siege units, new random seed on reload and let them attack your city repeatedly.
 
I love civilization IV. I feel like the AI survives when attacking against odds but i am able to chalk it up to my own bad math and the fallacy where the outliers just stand out so i think they happen to often. I have been playing Beyond the sword almost exclusively for awhile now. I can not find any logic to ignore the fact tha AI artillery always survives. I have had this feeling for awhile and after scouring the inter webs for other complaints and not finding anything i always just assume it is in my head. Today i have now watched 6 trebuchets attack rifleman and not a sinlge one was destroyed. One had 20% attack 3 with 10% and 1 with no attack bonus. Later i watched 10 artillery pieces, again 2 with 20% bonus attack the rest 10% or less attack a well rounded defense of 12 units including 4 infantry with 75% defense bonuses and others with 3 first strike upgrades with less collateral damage and a 2 machine guns with 50% defnse upgrade (upgraded units i now MG cant get defense.) Not a single kill on the artillery. I than put 12 machine guns in city all with 3 first strike upgrades again 10 artillery pices not a single *snip* kill. I mean i lose 3 out of 5 trebuchets attacking swordsmen and longbowman...rightyful so but its consistent. What the heck am i supposed to do with this logic please tell me i am missing something......

Moderator Action: Moved thread from Civ 6 GD. Edited post to remove inappropriate language. ~ LK
You're just getting bad rolls. I've had trebs/arty that survives at 5% odds multiple times attacking. The human player always has better unit preservation instincts. This leads to not attacking at suicide numbers like 20%. In reality, even that is enough for a few lucky rolls to allow siege to live. The human simply doesn't experience it enough because eventually your siege will be attacking at 70-90% odds quickly. Ironically, this only makes people more mad when their siege dies at this % because they feel like it should be "safe."
 
The OP also seems to be mixing up bonuses from promotions with combat odds. Should check the combat odds in the combat log to see what the actual combat odds were (of the siege surviving), but it does sound like some unlucky (for OP) rolls. I do get AI siege regularly dying when attacking my stacks (and also regularly surviving.)
 
Build Chichen Izta, don't tech rifling, mass machine guns and afk while teching superconductors---no more bronze age catapults surviving when attack your cities. by the time they have cannons you have jet fighters.
 
But isn't "don't tech rifling" going against everything you stand for?
Like Shaka switching from Police State into Representation.

In my latest (but failed attempt) to win huge lakes, no tech trading, on deity, I played sitting bull of native America. I built the wall, whipped zigs, ran an espionage economy. I did a slingshot for CoL since I had to spread my state religion to Mansu Musa to maximize the efficiency of the early game espionage economy. I also had statue of Zeus to rot down the warmongers.

The main challenge is that declaring your own state religion gets you dogpiled. Hence, the choice to play sitting bull and allow the Ai's suicide into drill four longbows (granting a lot of great generals)
Yet the other challenge is nothing other than a great wall opening with a philosophical leader can ever hope to win on these settings, and only a state religion makes it possible.

It was in this game that I realized you could tech machine guns without first teching rifling (never tried it before), retaining the Chichen Itza bonus. The original plan was to longbow turtle into rifles.

I then switched to Immortal and played Sitting Bull of Russia to test the idea. It worked well. Also my UU (Cossack), was capable of a breakout against the weakest players.

I had mass machine guns and castles, slaying their medieval armies. By the time they had rifles, grens and cannons (which still all die to machine guns), I had the research institutes (russia's UB), by the time they had assembly line and artillery, I had jet fighters, mobile art and mech infantry.

I then tried this idea again and failed on deity.

The biggest problem on deity is that that you need a high city count to make an specialist economy work, and with no tech trading, it feels impossible to conquer a neighbor in a timely fashion. Not to mention they always build the mids before I do since I had to dedicate my wonder efforts towards the great wall.

On immortal you can build the wall, build an army to conquer the nearest neighbor while buildings the mids upon moving out with that army.

On deity I have to quit half the games on turn 100 (marathon) because HP, Rammy or Bismarck build the wall.

On deity I cannot run a split specialist economy of two great spies + representation scientists, because I can never build the mids. Hence the need to play a state religion and play a pure EE until biology. Problme of course being that I can't conquer enough land on diety. so fml.

Anyway, it works great on Immortal. But like everything, fails on Deity.

Perhaps I have to give into the dreaded fail gold strategy, at least in the early game.


I have a grand total of four deity wins on those settings playing in the past decade (all with Boudica of Sumeria), and they all had the same thing in common:
A neighbor that build the Great Lighthouse and Temple of Artemis with high sea level on the Lakes map with 2+ gold in their cap.

Followed up by the second nearest neighbor having the Colossus and the Mids, allowing me to switch to police state and crank out 100 vultures, while putting all my citizens on sea commerce tiles and keeping open borders for ToA + Great Lighthouse. I won the games before 500 AD, with only the weakest players still standing. Even though they have longbows and castles, a stack of 200 ultra promoted charismatic vultures has no respect for it lol.

Obviously this isn't reliable, since I can't force my nearest neighbors to build wonders for me. Not to mention you have threaten AI's for their gold to support the 200 vultures. If no AI's have gold, or refuse, you go on strike and your vultures dissapear. Hence, I've lost to Strike even when capturing the above four wonders. Not reliable, and therefore, not viable. I don't even count those four victories as legitmate, but rather as blind luck, regarldess of the edffort that went into them.
 
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What level are you playing at? Maybe the issue is not the AI getting lucky but a lack of units on your part? As others point out these units can't kill units only soften them up. With flanking you can often deal with catapults and trebs. If you are attacking an AI always scout out their main stack. If your odds are below 5% consider bombarding defences first. Accept you will lose some catapults/trebs/artillery. Just whip or build units to replace them.
 
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