AI Behaviour?

[futurehermit]

Some people have mentioned lower tech pace. Some people have mentioned faster AI expansion. Some have mentioned better AI land and naval war abilities.

I was just wondering if people with the game could post in some detail about how the AI operates in BtS (please post skill level or if you are referencing xml/code that is fine).

My thinking was that if the AI got less bonuses that they would expand slower, but reports of faster AI expansion seems counter-intuitive to me. Does this mean they are chopping settlers??? Does it mean they are using slavery better?

Someone said the AI is no longer defending primarily with archers. I think this is GREAT and will greatly nerf axerushing (and quechua rushing!!!).

Warlords threw some shocks at me when I started to play in terms of AI behaviour. Specifically, I was shocked at how many units the AI would pump in its capital during war.

What new tricks am I likely to face and how can I expect the AI to behave in terms of expansion, teching, and warfare?

 

[ainwood]

I think the AI is, overall, much better. Expect sneak attacks. Expect better city placement. Expect more units (maybe that has been overdone a little...) expect more intelligent attacks (especially combined arms and use of catapults etc).

The governers have had an overhaul, and actually work with the workers (or vice-versa - the workers will build food enhancements in prefernece to produciton enhancements in cities emphasising food etc).

 

[futurehermit]

Man, oh man, why do I have these evil visions of Shaka all of a sudden??? :shudder:

 

[allansm]

I noticed that when a city is reaching it's happiness limit, the governor automatically change the tiles it works to stop or at least slow the grow. It's a great help when managing a big empire, because i don't need to check all the time if a city is near its happiness limits. Also the governor don't automatically assigns scientists in almost every city when you adopt caste system.

The AI is using slavery better. The only war I fought was against Portugal, and the turn next the DOW the AI whipped a lot of defenders in the city a was heading to. When I got there, they had a mixed stack of defenders: mainly archers and chariots, but they had a few axemen and spearmen there too. No catapults, as they haven't researched construction yet.

 

[Polycrates]

I've only been tinkering on Prince level, so take it for what it's worth.
Tech pace seems very slow, though I had trading restricted to only what you've researched, and they seemed very slow to work all their tiles (which could be a cause of the slow tech pace).
I have noticed much more whipping - and low city sizes that could only be the result of quite extensive whipping.
Haven't noticed particularly rushed expansion, and city placement has seemed sensible.
Even on Aggressive AI, they haven't been terribly aggressive - I remember versions of BetterAI where Shaka would charge me at 2500BC, and there was none of that, even from an at-times pissed-off Boudica next door.
Louis invaded me with a 'stack' of three units without support across another AI he had tense relations with, which was a far cry from some of the massive invasion forces the dagger AI routine whould throw at me.
Only been one other war declared between AIs at ~500AD.
So yeah, I'm not sure.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

I noticed that when a city is reaching it's happiness limit, the governor automatically change the tiles it works to stop or at least slow the grow. It's a great help when managing a big empire, because i don't need to check all the time if a city is near its happiness limits. Also the governor don't automatically assigns scientists in almost every city when you adopt caste system.

The AI is using slavery better. The only war I fought was against Portugal, and the turn next the DOW the AI whipped a lot of defenders in the city a was heading to. When I got there, they had a mixed stack of defenders: mainly archers and chariots, but they had a few axemen and spearmen there too. No catapults, as they haven't researched construction yet.

The games out in Brazil?! Oh come on.......

 

[flex12]

Remember? This is has become one world...

 

[IronCrown]

I noticed a glitch in AI behavior. In my first game yesterday I founded Christianity (with monotheism ) and built the Apostolic Palace. By that time 5 of the 8 existing civs were christian. I was on Pleased with all of them, but Mansa Musa was elected to 'pope' Well, that's ok.

But then, my neighbor the Dutch declared war on me. Why not, he wasn't christian (though he also had some christian cities). And now it comes: In the very same turn he declared war on me, my good friend mansa musa proposed a resolution demanding that the aggression against me should be stopped immediately. And the very next turn the war was over. The odd thing about it: Everyone voted for the resolution, including the AI that had attacked me! That doesn't make any sense. He attacked and then voted to stop his own aggression

I'd like to stress that there are three options when voting: "Yes", "No" and "Never". I could understand if he had voted with No, meaning that he preferred to continue his war but would rather make peace than defy the resolution. But voting "Yes" is just ridiculous.

 

[sneaky]

I noticed a glitch in AI behavior. In my first game yesterday I founded Christianity (with monotheism ) and built the Apostolic Palace. By that time 5 of the 8 existing civs were christian. I was on Pleased with all of them, but Mansa Musa was elected to 'pope' Well, that's ok.

But then, my neighbor the Dutch declared war on me. Why not, he wasn't christian (though he also had some christian cities). And now it comes: In the very same turn he declared war on me, my good friend mansa musa proposed a resolution demanding that the aggression against me should be stopped immediately. And the very next turn the war was over. The odd thing about it: Everyone voted for the resolution, including the AI that had attacked me! That doesn't make any sense. He attacked and then voted to stop his own aggression

I'd like to stress that there are three options when voting: "Yes", "No" and "Never". I could understand if he had voted with No, meaning that he preferred to continue his war but would rather make peace than defy the resolution. But voting "Yes" is just ridiculous.

From what I heard, voting yes or no also effects international relations. For instance, if someone want to have a specific city of another civ and you vote yes on that poll, your relations with the original owner of that city may now get a (invisible?) negative multiplier. So voting is very much a diplomatic issue and it may have been smarter for Willem of Orange to just vote yes instead of no.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

I noticed a glitch in AI behavior. In my first game yesterday I founded Christianity (with monotheism ) and built the Apostolic Palace. By that time 5 of the 8 existing civs were christian. I was on Pleased with all of them, but Mansa Musa was elected to 'pope' Well, that's ok.

But then, my neighbor the Dutch declared war on me. Why not, he wasn't christian (though he also had some christian cities). And now it comes: In the very same turn he declared war on me, my good friend mansa musa proposed a resolution demanding that the aggression against me should be stopped immediately. And the very next turn the war was over. The odd thing about it: Everyone voted for the resolution, including the AI that had attacked me! That doesn't make any sense. He attacked and then voted to stop his own aggression

I'd like to stress that there are three options when voting: "Yes", "No" and "Never". I could understand if he had voted with No, meaning that he preferred to continue his war but would rather make peace than defy the resolution. But voting "Yes" is just ridiculous.

I can see that the Ap Palace is going to produce some weird results, just like you reported. Part of me thinks it a bug, and part of me thinks not. You could sorta say that your aggressor was "scared" by the weight of the other nations into voting yes. You could also say that it made no sense at all, and should be bugged.

As vassals produced some very strange results initially in warlords, Im sure we'll see some from Ap Pal resolutions. Is it a bug? To me, no. But is it in that "this makes no sense" area. Quite possibly. If you can find a "not a bug but stupid" thread ....or start one, it belongs there.

 

[frob2900]

Man, oh man, why do I have these evil visions of Shaka all of a sudden??? :shudder:

If the AI in BtS is indeed based on the latest BetterAI then, regarding people like Shaka:

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I kid you not, and I wish I still had the screenshots to prove it to you, but Shaka on BetterAI is a complete monster. A few months ago I played a Monarch game against BetterAI shaka, and the classical age stacks of swordsmen/catapults/axes that he built were ridiculous. They were comparable in size to modern age stacks, and way larger than the classical age stacks of an emperor level AI with the standard AI settings.

By the medieval I couldn't keep up anymore. I had more land, but he kept declaring and bleeding my dry despite crazy whipping. One of the very few times I've actually retired in disgust due to event in warfare (which I like to think is my forte)

 

[vodlaian]

All of these are pics of other civs

 

[IronCrown]

@sneaky: No, only defying resolutions incurs a relations hit, I checked it. I don't think there are any hidden diplomacy modifiers, it wouldn't make sense.

Anyway, it's completely idiotic to attack someone if you have not thought it through in advance. He should have known that the large christian bloc wouldn't approve of his war, so either he shouldn't have attacked or he should be prepared to suffer the diplomatic repercussions. (Not to mention that I would have defeated him )

This way, he just got a big diplomacy hit (with me and all of my friends), and gained absolutely nothing.

@DrewBledsoe: Well, I think it's a clear AI glitch because no human would act like that.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

From what I heard, voting yes or no also effects international relations. For instance, if someone want to have a specific city of another civ and you vote yes on that poll, your relations with the original owner of that city may now get a (invisible?) negative multiplier. So voting is very much a diplomatic issue and it may have been smarter for Willem of Orange to just vote yes instead of no.

That is exactly what would happen in Rhye's mod with the world congresses. If you voted against a civ, they were more likely to vote against you. You were safer abstaining all the time.

BTW, this modifier is defined in XML ("you voted against us") so it should be visible.

 

[sneaky]

That is exactly what would happen in Rhye's mod with the world congresses. If you voted against a civ, they were more likely to vote against you. You were safer abstaining all the time.

This is what I meant, indeed. Still, in any case, it was a dumb move on Willems side, because as IronCrown said, he should have known that the Christian bloc would not approve of it.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

If the AI in BtS is indeed based on the latest BetterAI then, regarding people like Shaka:

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

I kid you not, and I wish I still had the screenshots to prove it to you, but Shaka on BetterAI is a complete monster. A few months ago I played a Monarch game against BetterAI shaka, and the classical age stacks of swordsmen/catapults/axes that he built were ridiculous. They were comparable in size to modern age stacks, and way larger than the classical age stacks of an emperor level AI with the standard AI settings.

By the medieval I couldn't keep up anymore. I had more land, but he kept declaring and bleeding my dry despite crazy whipping. One of the very few times I've actually retired in disgust due to event in warfare (which I like to think is my forte)

I always play rand pers, and in one game I had a similar shaka Augustus. When I got bored with fighting him constantly from around 1 ad to 1000ad, I had 20 shock axemen in the one city he kept after with his Praets. We were both so far behind in tech it had become pointless.

N.B. I got 3 GG from him attacking that one city for 1000yrs though, but still a pointless game to continue.

 

[Tetsuru]

New Relationship modifiers with UN/PALACE
+ You have been good natured towards us!
+ You voted for us!
+ Past events have made our people closer!
- You have shown bad nature towards us!
- You voted against us!
- Past events have divided our people!

The AI does take into account that if it votes no, or defy's the resolution it gets a negative with all of Christianity.

 

[Rusty Edge]

The games out in Brazil?! Oh come on.......

It's a conspiracy, Mannnn.
They've agreed to let these free downloads and demos have free reign for at least a week.
That would be just like the establishment.

 

[salaminizer]

It's a conspiracy, Mannnn.
They've agreed to let these free downloads and demos have free reign for at least a week.
That would be just like the establishment.

Nope, it's not out in Brazil... I don't even know when we will get it. Now you know HOW he got BTS