AI Colonies; any way to "force" their complete independence?

[Wheem]

I've never actually seen an AI created colony rebel against its master, and declare independence. Is there any method for getting this to happen (without cheating)?

Nothing seems apparent to me, since there's no way to "frame" an AI for espionage/sabotage (that I'm aware of), and they don't really seem to anger each other through diplomacy.

 

[Ferix]

I've seen it happen, though I often play on a duel or tiny map with many—8-15—civs all starting on an "old world" with a "new world" ready to colonise later on. As a consequence of the amount of civs in the (small) "old world", the colonies tend to comprise more cities than the coloniser, and after the coloniser has inevitably granted independence, the colonies almost instantly break free—completely—of their control (or…are independent…again ).

Short of conquering or settling cities and then gifting them to the colonies to increase their size, I don't believe there is anything you can do. Which is unfortunate, really.

I can't be certain though whether the colony consisting of more cities than the master is sufficient for breaking free. In my experience it has seemed to be.

 

[CHEESE!]

I dont believe there is. I have never seen it either

OMG 300th post! Yay me

 

[The Snug]

If you vassalize the parent civ, the colony will break free.

 

[mattkaru]

If you vassalize the parent civ, the colony will break free.

That kind of sucks. It seems like the game should have a better feature for encouraging colonies to declare independence.

After all, the whole idea of forcing a colony to break free would be to weaken the colonizer, but you have to weaken the colonizer to free a colony.

Ah well, it's still a fun game!

 

[Dryhad]

That kind of sucks. It seems like the game should have a better feature for encouraging colonies to declare independence.

After all, the whole idea of forcing a colony to break free would be to weaken the colonizer, but you have to weaken the colonizer to free a colony.

Ah well, it's still a fun game!

Well it's a matter of practicality. Vassals become free when they become more powerful than their master (I think) and colonies are vassals. So I don't think they actually can break free until either their master is weakened or they are strengthened.

 

[Wheem]

When mousing over a civilization that was forced into capitulation, you'll see information about what % of population/land the vassal has compared to its master. However, you don't see any such information for colonies, and the rules seem different. Reading over the civilopedia, it seems as though the only way they'll split, is if relations get really bad between the two.

In my current game, Gilgamesh colonized part of a second continent, and apparently moved his capital. When he created the Babylonians as a colony, they actually took over his starting position, with Uruk as the capital city. Now, Hammurabi has a slightly higher score than Gilgamesh, but is still considered a colony.

One reason I'm asking is for my current game; Joao and I used to be buddies, but he's been a pain lately. At one point he declared war on me, but there was a forced peace from the Apostolic Palace. I wouldn't mind stomping him if he tries it again, but I don't want to be at war with his American colony (with whom I've got really good relations). I don't wanna cheat, so it may come down to beating up on Joao, and then trying to make nice with Lincoln afterwards.

 

[The Snug]

When mousing over a civilization that was forced into capitulation, you'll see information about what % of population/land the vassal has compared to its master. However, you don't see any such information for colonies, and the rules seem different. Reading over the civilopedia, it seems as though the only way they'll split, is if relations get really bad between the two.

In my current game, Gilgamesh colonized part of a second continent, and apparently moved his capital. When he created the Babylonians as a colony, they actually took over his starting position, with Uruk as the capital city. Now, Hammurabi has a slightly higher score than Gilgamesh, but is still considered a colony.

One reason I'm asking is for my current game; Joao and I used to be buddies, but he's been a pain lately. At one point he declared war on me, but there was a forced peace from the Apostolic Palace. I wouldn't mind stomping him if he tries it again, but I don't want to be at war with his American colony (with whom I've got really good relations). I don't wanna cheat, so it may come down to beating up on Joao, and then trying to make nice with Lincoln afterwards.

lol. welcome to Joao. That's his gig, he backstabs even when he likes you.

I am aware of only two ways for colonies to become free. 1) If you vassalize their parent civ they will automatically break free by default. 2) If, somehow, your relations become very strained and you demand a resource from them, they can, if they so choose, decide to declare war on you.

I do not believe that a colony can "out-grow" its parent, as the percent of land and percent of population rules are only a function of capitulation rather than of colonization.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Its a good point actually, when you think about it. If you check in the diplo screen, you get "+lots- You granted us independence"...except you never really did. For full independence (as the OP said) they would have to reach a point where they detest their original masters. That completely misses the point of become independent/granting independence.

As things are in the game, they are at best a puppet nation who still has to obey when told what to research, and join in any wars when ordered to. It would be far more interesting to be able to grant full independence, meaning the nation then behaves as it wants, but only then giving the +10 (whatever) "You granted us independence", to act as a modifier guaranteeing their initial (at least) good diplomatic/trade status...

Ah well, too late for CIv IV anyways .............