AI Deity production bonus

[The Snug]

I don't know if this has been addressed anywhere (I couldn't find it), but I noticed the AI bonuses in my deity game.

Cost of Infantry
For me: 280 hammers
For AI: 134 hammers

Cost of Factory
For me: 750 hammers
For AI: 360 hammers

That's less than half (48% to be exact). That means that for every RIFLE I build, the AI can build 2.

 

[wannabewarlord]

sucks to be you

no really, I think that is exactly what makes winning on deity level so much of an achievement. you manage to beat the immense matehmatical odds against you with your wit.

I am longing to get on this level of skill at one point. But I guess it'll be a while. I am just now moving from noble another level up...a long journey lies ahead

cheers,
wannabewarlord

 

[The Snug]

It should also be noted that the AI does recieve bonuses for World Wonders too. Someone had told me otherwise in another thread somewhere.

Here's an example:
Pentagon
Me: 3750 hammers
AI: 3000 hammers

That's only a 20% reduction, so it's not as severe, but they still do receive a slight edge.

I still have to research Team projects.

 

[JujuLautre]

What is to be adressed? This is quite well known

 

[MrCynical]

What's to be addressed is that these numbers don't match the parameters in the HandicapInfo XML file.

I am however seeing mostly the same thing at Deity. Units and most improvements are costing 48% for the AI. The few wonders I've checked are at 80%. Since the modifier for Deity is supposed to be 60% for units and 100% for wonders, there seems to be an 80% modifier applied across everything. It's curiously inconsistent though - an industrial park for instance costs the AI 252 hammers vs. 600 for me, so 42% in that case. There are a number of others which are close to, but not exactly at 48%, which suggests we may be dealing with multiple factors, and which are suffering rounding errors (as hammer costs do not retain fractions). Even more confusingly, the costs are not the same from AI to AI. For instance an observatory was costing one AI 202 hammers, but another only 189, at the same time in the same game.

I ran some checks at Immortal as well. The Taj Mahal clocks in at 2100 hammers for the human, but 1848 for the AI - so curiously they're getting a 12% discount there. Given it scales logically with difficulty, this suggests it is deliberate. However there is no parameter with this modifier in the entire handicap file, which is somewhat baffling.

EDIT: I may have found where these modifiers come from. There are a set of parameters in the CIV4EraInfos XML file, which have the same Create, Construct, Train lines as the HandicapInfo file. On examination, these go from all at 100% for the ancient era section to 60-80% for the future era. I think these modifiers are being applied on top of the handicap bonus for the AI.

For example, the industrial park costs me 600 hammers in any era. The AI in the modern era was getting a cost of 252. 600*0.6 = 360. The constructpercent modifier for the modern era in the era file is 0.7. 360*0.7 = 252, i.e. the cost I'm seeing for the AI in the game.

The era is definitely relevant - in the earlier case where one AI was paying 202 for an observatory and another 189, I checked the era. The 202 one was in the industrial age whereas the 189 one was in the modern age. Gifting tech to the industrial AI to move them to the modern age changed their observatory costs to 189 as well.

So it looks like there's another set of modifiers for the AI in the Era file, which reduce their costs as they progress through the eras. This effect is only present for levels above Noble, and is partly specified by the AIPerEraModifier line in the Handicap file (I'd wondered what that one did). It isn't seen at Noble or below, where this line is set to 0, but is seen at all higher levels, where it rangess from -1 to -5. Setting it to 0 in the handicap file removes all discrepancies - e.g. after this change industrial parks now cost 360 for all AIs at Deity, and observatories cost 270 for all AIs regardless of era.

This is quite a sneaky modifier - since it is zero in the ancient era it easily slips through basic world builder checks which will usually just be built from the starting position.

 

[Supr49er]

It should also be noted that the AI does recieve bonuses for World Wonders too. Someone had told me otherwise in another thread somewhere.

Here's an example:
Pentagon
Me: 3750 hammers
AI: 3000 hammers

That's only a 20% reduction, so it's not as severe, but they still do receive a slight edge.

I still have to research Team projects.

Makes building the Kremlin pretty important.

 

[r_rolo1]

Thanks for the info, Mr Cynical.... very useful

Now someone has to explain to me why this stuff isn't documented properly by the program provider

P:S Better put this info in the Strategy articles forum. It is easy to find it there than digging it out in here,.

 

[Roland Johansen]

The AIpereramodifier is not a well hidden secret or something. It's clearly visible in the Handicap file and I've seen it referred to in some of the more technical War Academy articles. At deity level it's an additional -5% modifier per era (after the first) and it's multiplicative with other modifiers. The size of the modifier depends on the era that the AI is in.

It's also pretty logical why it is in the game. The high difficulty levels typical require good players (or players who have created some advantages for themselves through all kinds of settings which are favourable to them) and these good players tend to be able to take advantage of every element of the game. As the game progresses, there are more elements that they can use and thus their advantage compared to the AI increases. It's only logical to slowly increase the advantage of the AI so that it can keep competing. And still, it's a well known fact that if you can catch up with the starting bonus of the high level AI, then you'll inevitably win the game. So maybe the bonus is not even big enough.

Still, I wonder why the OP started this thread. The AI advantages in production at high levels are well known and he doesn't even talk about the seeming discrepancies with the handicap file. So why was this thread started in the first place?

 

[MrCynical]

Still, I wonder why the OP started this thread. The AI advantages in production at high levels are well known and he doesn't even talk about the seeming discrepancies with the handicap file. So why was this thread started in the first place?

I think the main point worth noting is that the frequently stated "AI gets no bonus to wonder construction from difficulty level " is not actually correct. They don't get anywhere near as much of a bonus as to improvement and unit construction, but they do get some bonus at all levels above Noble except in the Ancient era.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I think the main point worth noting is that the frequently stated "AI gets no bonus to wonder construction from difficulty level " is not actually correct. They don't get anywhere near as much of a bonus as to improvement and unit construction, but they do get some bonus at all levels above Noble except in the Ancient era.

That's technically true, however in most cases the bonus is pretty small. For instance: Emperor level (which is considered one of the higher levels), middle ages (third time period), the AI would pay 94% of the human building cost for world wonders (if I'm correct). That's a bonus, yes, but it's not really that influential.
The bonus is not really noticeable at monarch and below and starts to become more and more influential at emperor, immortal and deity levels in the late game.

I've known about this bonus for a while (also that it applies to wonders), but it's true that the bonus is not one of the most well known AI bonuses and there is not a lot of discussion about it.

Note however that I still don't really get the OP starting post. It's a statement about some construction costs without conclusion or question. When I read it, I didn't know what he wanted with this thread, so I didn't respond.

 

[The Snug]

Apparently I wasn't clear enough in the OP. I posted the information bcz I couldn't find the production bonuses listed anywhere (tried a search in the academy but couldn't come up with the info), and no one pointed me to where the information was kept. So I'm simply posting the exact bonuses in case anyone is interested. Furthermore, posting about a particular subject usually stirs discussion concerning it.

Besides, any rehash of very technical information in a non-technical post is helpful for those who fall asleep reading technical posts. lol

 

[The Snug]

The AIpereramodifier is not a well hidden secret or something. It's clearly visible in the Handicap file and I've seen it referred to in some of the more technical War Academy articles. At deity level it's an additional -5% modifier per era (after the first) and it's multiplicative with other modifiers. The size of the modifier depends on the era that the AI is in./QUOTE]

Intuitively, I had guessed the era modifier (just thinking through the pattern in my head).

What other multipliers does the era bonus multiply with? You mean that the modifier for era is added to the modifier for unit/building cost?

 

[Roland Johansen]

Intuitively, I had guessed the era modifier (just thinking through the pattern in my head).

What other multipliers does the era bonus multiply with? You mean that the modifier for era is added to the modifier for unit/building cost?

I'm no authority on this subject. I've read some and tested some and observed some ingame, but I haven't looked at the code in detail or did detailed ingame tests about this subject thus I could be wrong.

There are many bonuses for the AI. I know that this bonus multiplies with every production bonus, but I suspect that the modifier is similarly used for elements like technological research cost. At deity level (and other high levels), there are higher research costs for the human player (see the handicaps file again), but I suspect that the AI also gets the AIpereramodifier bonus on its own research cost. However, I could be wrong.
In the article, War Weariness Mechanics, you can see that it is even used in the amount of war weariness the AI gets. So if it's even applied to the war weariness, then I guess it is applied to most numerical elements in the game (food, production, research).

At the moment, the first post is slightly misleading because the cost of a factory for the AI at deity level is thus dependent of the age the AI is in. And it also suggests that the AI gets a 52% reduction on all forms of construction throughout the game which is not true. But it's not a problem. Anyone interested should read on and find out how it really works. It's a complex way to give bonuses, but I do think it's a useful way to do it as it keeps the game competitive while the smart human player invents more and more technologies that it can use better than the dumb AI can.

 

[The Snug]

but I do think it's a useful way to do it as it keeps the game competitive while the smart human player invents more and more technologies that it can use better than the dumb AI can.

You mean like flight.

Actually, that's why I started the thread. So that others could post what they know.

 

[Roland Johansen]

You mean like flight.

Actually, that's why I started the thread. So that others could post what they know.

With the limit on the number of planes per city in BTS, the human advantage with using flight has been diminished as it's harder to overwhelm the aerial protection of the AI, but it's still possible. Flight is a huge advantage when you can get it before the AI and that is often possible as it is not one of the priorities of the AI. The AI doesn't realise the advantage of getting flight before an opponent. In general, the more complicated you make combat, the larger the advantage for the human player.

 

[MrCynical]

What other multipliers does the era bonus multiply with? You mean that the modifier for era is added to the modifier for unit/building cost?

The era modifier multiplies rather than adds with the difficulty modifier. Hence the 48% examples are composed of 60% from difficulty multiplied by 80% from era (presumably the AI were in the Industrial age).

The era modifiers definitely apply to city growth rate, and it looks like they also apply to research.

 

[The Snug]

The era modifier multiplies rather than adds with the difficulty modifier. Hence the 48% examples are composed of 60% from difficulty multiplied by 80% from era (presumably the AI were in the Industrial age).

The era modifiers definitely apply to city growth rate, and it looks like they also apply to research.

Thanks. That's good info.