AI extra EP

[Gigaz]

Lately I discovered that the AI has no units with less then 3 upgrades on high difficulty levels. They must start with that bonus! Does anyone else find this overpowered? They have huge stacks anyway. These Combat 4 Wolfrider stacks from Sheelba are really awful.

 

[DemonMaster]

Personally I think extra workers, warriors, and settlers all depending on difficulty level is the way to go, but thats just me.

Edit: I don't like extra promotions.

 

[Yashkaf]

I think the extra XPs were added to balance the late game wars when we guys don't even bother with units with under 50 xp, which are easy to get from barbs and the like. The AI often doesn't realize the huge important of elite units and won't farm xp as efficiently. For example, I will always attack some barb at 85% odds with any unit level 4-5 and under rather than defend at 99% to get 3-4 xp instead of 1. The AI will never do that. Thus, the extra promotions help the AI a lot in mid-late game.

As noted, there are two problems with it. First, Beeri Bawl is screwed. Second, early game when the human lacks elite units as well, the AI pumps out combat 3-4 warriors with minimal effort and kills you.

The fix is very simple in my opinion: add a number of free promotions at construction that is based on the unit tier. 1,2,3,4 for 1,2,3,4 tier units on Deity, 0,1,2,3 on Immortal etc. That way, early game you only have to face combat 1 warriors, but late game when your beastmaster is a 150 xp monster upgraded from a scout waaay back, the AI will at least have a fighting chance with a combat 4 BM from the bat.

 

[RogueThunder]

I like your basic idea. Its quite inspired. But your way of going about iit is a little... iffy.


I suggest making it A: Based on the turn counter more than teir... The AI is often a teir or two beind even widing the issue. Or prehaps top teir in the game--rather than owned by the computer. B: XP. Not straight free promotions. Because meep. Something starting with say, 4 free promotions winnning a few battles... Also. Mages might actually be seen in AI hands. Sure, they dont know how to use them, but right now they rarely get past adepts. And often not for technological reasons.
Plus. Charismatic leaders, would see a slight advantage out of it. Which would be appropriate, as its balancing for something human players do that sees an advantage from charismatic.

Dunno about A myself. Sounds better to me... B however I see as being vital. For more than one reaon... as stated.

That said. On the highest dificulties, it should definately come out to atleast 1 level right off the bat, if not 2 on charismatics fairly early game.

But thats just my 2 yen.
*disclamer: Excuse my Japan oriented jokes the next few days... Ive been in japan since newyears and will be so until the 10th ^.^... ... ... Den-Den Town in Osaka is geek heaven btw. Even can find obscure computer components for better prices than newegg.

 

[Grey Fox]

Personally I think extra workers, warriors, and settlers all depending on difficulty level is the way to go, but thats just me.

Edit: I don't like extra promotions.

If you don't like the extra starting units, use one of the options that raise the difficulty while you play. Either the one that increases difficulty every 50 turns, or the Flexible difficulty. And then Start at a difficulty you think has fair starting units for the AI.


And the extra XP I think might be temporary fix to make the higher end difficulties enjoyable for those that already ruled over the AI on immortal and deity earlier.

My suggestion is to make it an option like the No Buildings Required for AI Upgrades, etc...

 

[slowcar]

i would also like it to become an option, excellent idea!

 

[PotatoOverdose]

The extra xp was the first update that made the AI actually competitive on higher difficulty levels. I've actually lost quite a few deity games since its implementation, which is a good thing, because no one is supposed to win 100% of their games on deity. But if you don't like it, there's no need for a new special option, because one exists already. Just tone down the difficulty a bit.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

As I said before, it's part of a package deal wherein the AI lost a lot of start-of-game freebies. I argued that they should lose the free XP and get the other bonuses back, and still think that way, though taking away the XP and leaving their other bonuses as thry currently are would just be horrible.

 

[Sarisin]

I wrote about the free XP/Promotions in the Scorpion Clan Archer thread.

I am still seeing this and I play at 'only' Monarch difficulty level. These aren't always late game promotions either and I don't think every barb is being built in a city that can give the promotions.

It appears that barbs are being spawned with two promotions. However, the promotion combos are often bizarre and not the best for a unit.

 

[renardargent]

I am not sure if it would work well, but changing the value of <iAIFreeXP> in the CIV4HandicapInfo.xml, located at FFH2/Assets/XML/Gameinfos folder might worth a try, if you do not like AI free XPs.
By the way, it seems AI free XP starts from Monarch level with a value of 2, up to Deity's 8, and AI starting units do not receive this bonus.

EDIT:Completely missed the bonus on Prince... Thanks!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

It starts at prince with 1.

 

[Yashkaf]

I must admit that RogueThunder's idea is better than what I first suggested. Just yesterday I coordinated a beatiful combat combat maneuver to take out 3 of the AI's combat 4 brujas in a fight against the Calabim on Momus. 3 turns later, they had 3 more built, with all that xp to boot. (I play Immortal). Basing the xp on turns sounds good, and can be implemented:

You can actually look to Fall Further for some ideas on the AI XP problem. FF introduces both a turn counter for each unit which is just there for coolness and also the ability to gain passive xp by resting in towns with special building. The passive xp was designed to give pacifist civs a chance to put up defenders with at least 3-4 promotions against a storm of CR3 Combat 5 Cover 2 axemen/champions. It seems it is easy to implement a mechanic which will give each unit under the AI's control some xp every number of turns. This would balance all three issues: early game everybody will have low xp units, late game everybody will have high xp high tier units, but if you kill a national unit with a ton of promotions the AI wouldn't be able to pop a clone of it within 3 turns the same way you can't. Then, the AI could be programmed to upgrade his "veteranest" units first through the tiers. You could even program the AI to be forced to upgrade say units level 8 and up if a higher tier is available. The check could be made whenever the AI gets a new technology plus every 20 turns or so.

Who knows, we might actually see an AI mage out there, or a war chariot with commando, god forbid.

 

[Sarisin]

Who knows, we might actually see an AI mage out there, or a war chariot with commando, god forbid.

If you see a War Chariot at all, you have a scoop. They have been eliminated a few patches back.

You're right about the mages, though. The only ones I see are the Sheaim Moebius Witches which come through the Planar Gates.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

In my current game, the amurites are fielding quite a large number of wizards, and using them relatively effectively(Although most of them come over to the dark side once they've had a chat with Gibbon's puppets). With the current bonus xp in play, the AI does field some pretty powerful units. I dominated an amurite champion that had over 100xp... quite impressive for an AI.

 

[zup]

One game of mine when Basium at last turned on me, he had dozens of 50+ xp angels from wiping out technologically backwards civs. It was not pretty but fortunately I was able to hold the tide, with Nox Noctis.

 

[blacknight]

Not too long ago someone suggested giving the ai decreased level cost (like charismatic) based on level. This would be in place of free xp.

One advantage of discounted level stated as a prime example is that it would greatly improved games with the flexible difficulty setting.

Cheers,

 

[civ_king]

heck no on decreasing xp costs, that could get really dangerous

 

[PotatoOverdose]

heck no on decreasing xp costs, that could get really dangerous

isn't that the point on higher difficulties?

 

[civ_king]

is it possible to win if on turn 100 normal speed you face an invasion force with 8+ promotions each?

 

[PotatoOverdose]

First off, where did you get 8 promotions from? At best the AI starts with 3, (4 if aggressive) on deity at the moment, you more than doubled that...

Secondly, it is possible(if the stack size is reasonable). The Clan could do it via hiring at goblin forts and/or use of their worldspell. The sheaim could, with a good start field pyre zombies which are great for busting stacks. 100 turns is also more than enough time to pump up Lucian off of Barbs as Mahala. The Elohim could cast their world spell and use diplomacy to get a stronger civ to attack the one that attacked you, if the players was a shrewd diplomat. In fact, diplomacy would probably be your best bet, and then going for a religious victory. Although with 8 promos the game really would be a pain in the... and only a few civs could really hope to succeed, and even then the success rate would be very low, but still possible.

However, no one suggested giving the AI 8 promos for all units (almost tripling their current average amount on deity) so this is really a moot point.