AI site digs

[Txurce]

Yeah, it's not like countries can ASK what you're planning to do with your archeologist, IRL or in PVP. It's not like countries have ever co-operated...

Do people steal? Yes. Do they steal 100% of the time? (in game or IRL) No.

You're coming off as very condescending and it's making you look quite foolish.

Mr I'm--Deity-Player thinks I look condescending? LMFAO.

 

[Gazebo]

Y'all behave now.

G

 

[Emufarmers]

If it's possible to make the AI handle this in a reasonable and (not-super-exploitable) fashion, I think it would be a good thing. Every feature is supposed to be accessible to the AI, right?

I don't think I'm ever asked to stop before I get my first artifact, and I'm positive that they usually don't ask early. (They do often start digging atop my guy.) I always say I will stop, then keep right on digging -- and always get a negative diplo modifier. It sounds like we're playing different games.

If you're going to keep on digging and stealing, why don't you just refuse to stop when they ask you?

 

[Txurce]

If it's possible to make the AI handle this in a reasonable and (not-super-exploitable) fashion, I think it would be a good thing. Every feature is supposed to be accessible to the AI, right?

If you're going to keep on digging and stealing, why don't you just refuse to stop when they ask you?

1. Not sure what feature is being exploited, other than losing your cutural heritage because you're technologically behind... kinda like what's happened throughout history. I'd call that as much a part of the game as losing your cities because your dromons can't stop frigates.

2. I don't refuse to stop because I would get another negative diplo modifier.

 

[ElliotS]

1. Not sure what feature is being exploited, other than losing your cutural heritage because you're technologically behind... kinda like what's happened throughout history. I'd call that as much a part of the game as losing your cities because your dromons can't stop frigates.

2. I don't refuse to stop because I would get another negative diplo modifier.

Regarding 2: You getting a bigger diplo hit from lying than telling them your's not going to stop IIRC.

 

[Txurce]

Regarding 2: You getting a bigger diplo hit from lying than telling them your's not going to stop IIRC.

I don't recall ANY diplo hit for lying -- just for digging -- but will check in my current game. (It will be a while.)

 

[Emufarmers]

1. Not sure what feature is being exploited, other than losing your cutural heritage because you're technologically behind... kinda like what's happened throughout history. I'd call that as much a part of the game as losing your cities because your dromons can't stop frigates.

By feature, I mean being able to build landmarks in other players' territory. The AI doesn't do that right now. By making sure it's not exploitable, I mean that if AIs become able to do that, we don't want it to be easy to trick them into making landmarks for you or something.

I don't recall ANY diplo hit for lying -- just for digging -- but will check in my current game. (It will be a while.)

I think there's always supposed to be a diplomatic hit for breaking a promise, and generally one that's bigger than the penalty for refusing to make a promise. Otherwise, it would always be optimal to just make a promise, whether or not you intend to keep it!

 

[Txurce]

By feature, I mean being able to build landmarks in other players' territory. The AI doesn't do that right now. By making sure it's not exploitable, I mean that if AIs become able to do that, we don't want it to be easy to trick them into making landmarks for you or something.


I think there's always supposed to be a diplomatic hit for breaking a promise, and generally one that's bigger than the penalty for refusing to make a promise. Otherwise, it would always be optimal to just make a promise, whether or not you intend to keep it!

So you're saying that if the AI were to change its behavior and start building landmarks in foreign territory, you would want to game-proof their behavior. Okay, but that sounds like an abstract solution for a non-existent problem.

I have no problem with a diplo hit for lying. I said that I don't think there isn't one with regard to saying you won't steal artifacts (as opposed to what ElliotS recalled). I'll be there shortly in my current game, and will report back.

 

[Deadstarre]

You cant just steal civs stuff just because theyre behind on tech though, I could be 2 eras behind and protect my stuff by not giving out open borders. Thats the issue - the decision to give open borders is married to knowing the AI will steal from you, even when youre sworn allies, and that just makes no sense because it encourages people gaming the system as theyve said above; at a certain point you just dont give open borders and problem solved. Unless you know it'll be in your favor because youre getting to archaeology first, and of course the AI doesn't understand that so they'll go along for the ride.

The issue was created when mutually open borders became a requirement to dig and other rules were not updated to match the new system. If everyone was just pirates before and took whatever they could (until they promised not to) that makes much more sense (I have frigates and you have dromons, hear me roar!)

In my games this means digging everywhere I can, denying the AI digs by constructing landmarks for them - often in bad terrain like desert or outside of city working range - getting positive diplo reputation, all while having promised not to ever dig in their territory again and somehow ending up not breaking the promise.

and this is a separate issue, I assume born from the vanilla time when making a landmark for someone else was intended to be a legitimate favor, even though in todays VP it's just not (particularly for those who took artistry).