Air Combat

[Victoria]

In the Tips & tricks there was a question on air combat, specifically about protecting carriers. Ref. Question: how do you counter air units defending cities?

I have never done much on this area as its late in the game and the AI has never really bothered although I naturally have used bombers and fighters.

Is there any areas of air combat people want to know something about specifically? I am slowly writing a Damage guide which will have to include it so was just wondering as often good input brings great questions.

 

[Flaxton]

Good question, though I don't think I've ever been attacked by air! I rarely even build aerodrome etc myself, as the game is normally over by then. I suppose I would like to know if someone has used that district to do something interesting?

 

[Olleus]

I was going to experiment with how it worked, but haven't had the time yet. This guide seems to have basic info http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Air_Combat_(Civ6). Several questions I have:

What's up with that weird patrol thing exactly?
How can I deliberately attack an enemy air unit (not just defend when they attack)?
Who can intercept when, and how many times per turn?
When do planes use their combat strength, and when their ranged/bombard strength?

 

[Erudain]

Well basically most of what I asked in the other thread....I've seen the AI using air units in higher difficulties but never got one of my own cities attacked nor have I seen the AI use fighter on patrol mode. They mostly use it to defend their cities by attacking your gound units and ships.
So basically I'd like to know is:
- What's the use of the dogfight branch of the promotion tree? useless so far since I've never seen any of my fighters intercept enemies....add to that carriers not having the option to set fighters to intercept.
- What units can intercept? and how many times?....animation wise I've only see AA units attack incoming plane attacks, destroyers and missile cruises can intercept but they still take massive damage doing so.
Still have to confirm if they also intercept attacks coming to nearby units like a carrier or only can intercept if they are the targets of the attack

Edit: ok, forget the last part, in the pics below it seems they can intercept on nearby units, the attack on the carrier takes more dmg since it has several anti-air around it

 

[Victoria]

This stuff is weird, so here is the scenario

If I attack the Aircraft Carrier it shows I am 72 vs 65 but look at the damage I take... something is wrong2

If I attack the missile cruiser no other anti air can help them and my damage is less than attacking the carrier

Likewise attacking any destroyer

It looks like the destroyers and Missile cruisers cxan defend multiple times

 

[Jaybe]

If I attack the Aircraft Carrier it shows I am 72 vs 65 but look at the damage I take... something is wrong!

Carrier getting unlisted support from all the adjacent units?

 

[Uberfrog]

I notice the combat strength icon next to the Aircraft Carrier in that matchup shows 90 instead of 65 for the base strength.

Could it be that the Fighter is taking the -8 penalty from AntiAir, and then effectively fighting the 90 combat strength of the Missile Cruiser? That would be a difference of 90 - 72 = -18 which would explain taking more damage than 95 - 18 against the Missile Cruiser itself.

It's weird as hell, and probably bugged.

 

[Victoria]

So protecting an embarked unit works but why -7 for anti air?

Especially as one missile cruiser -is -4

and why onl;y -3 for the destroyers?

Especially as just one destroyer is -2

 

[Victoria]

I notice the combat strength icon next to the Aircraft Carrier in that matchup shows 90 instead of 65 for the base strength.

well spotted, it shows the carrier strength but then the correct missile cruiser strength.... nice

So the strength of the strongest and the attacker gets - for each additional but how muich minus is odd..... hos no-one seriously looked at this before... I guess you are all as bad as me then

symbol wise... is the star the attck strength and the sword the defence strength then?... that warrior gets seriously wasted but does a lot of damage back
That would mean it is not bugged

 

[Olleus]

I think the -x from anti air is because the game resolves the interception of the cruisers BEFORE the fighter carries out the air attack, and so the fighter will have less HP when attacking, resulting in that penalty.

 

[Olleus]

Victoria, can you look at the combat logs from your trials? I strongly suspect that each air strike will be TWO separate entries.

 

[Uberfrog]

hos no-one seriously looked at this before... I guess you are all as bad as me then

Well the AI's use of either air forces or navies has been pretty bad, not to mention anti-air units . It really hasn't come up enough to notice, in my experience.

 

[Olleus]

One more thing: some units have the tag CanTargetAir="True" while others do not. Any idea what it does?

All 5 planes have it, as do helicopters, mobile SAMS and missile cruisers. Anti-air gun does not.

 

[EpicWestern]

The deity AI seems to be more inclined to build air units than before, I've had a few games recently where I've actually felt the need to build air defense. Unfortunately it does seem incredibly buggy and/or poorly designed. In one game I actually built a mobile SAM to support an artillery assault on a city with jet fighters. The unit worked in the sense that it showed the animation of firing missiles at the jet but the attack was ineffectual - the jet only took around 1-3 damage.

I've built jet fighters myself with the intention of putting them on patrol vs enemy bombers that were picking off random units, but this time the jet didn't even respond to several attacks. Could be that I just ran poorly with the intercept chance that previous versions of civ had, but I'm pretty skeptical.

 

[Victoria]

Victoria, can you look at the combat logs from your trials? I strongly suspect that each air strike will be TWO separate entries.

nope ... 1 entry only

CanTargetAir="True"

Weird... will have a think

the jet didn't even respond.

Was the attack in the patrol radius?... thats the only way it will intercept, and according to the wiki, just once.

 

[Erudain]

Have to test it also, but according to the Wiki with the Patrol/Intercept action "Note that this tile cannot be over enemy territory - just over your own, or neutral territory." Maybe that's what prevents using the patrol action from the carriers? Could you test if you can use it in unclaimed sea tiles?...I admit the times I tryed to use the patrol action from fighters based on carriers I was inside enemy waters.

If true this also kinda makes my other idea uselss, I wanted to use an engineer to create an airflied next to an AI border or city and use the patrol action as a protection for your offensive ground force.

 

[Victoria]

I use firetuner for my tests and 99% of the time thing are correct but just making that clear

I can place a patrol in neutral waters.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Okay, so how useful are AA guns anyways? 1 range seems kinda short. As it can get really crowded anyways, they generally are in the back.

Also, ships can counter air units too, but is it also just 1 range too.

EDIT: LOL I didn't know AA guns were support units. Whoops.

 

[Tech Osen]

Airports are still very buggy. I just captured this city and game prompts me that I can attack the empty airport with my encampment.
Note that I haven't yet researched flight myself (so I can't check atm if I can build planes), maybe that will put it back in order.

Edit: turns out there was n invisible Norwegian plane left behind. I could shoot at it and the next turn it did a kamikaze on one of my dread-naughts.

 

[zhivik]

It's even worse - I have recently seen a playthrough where a city with air defences was taken, but not all enemy planes were destroyed. They continued to attack the invading player, even though they flew from an airport in already conquered territory! I think I saw this myself once, but I don't remember the circumstances exactly. At any rate, the AI seems to build air forces much more frequently now, even on not the highest difficulties (the playthrough was on King difficulty). Here is a video, the turn where planes attack from conquered territory starts at about 47:00:

It is definitely a bug, though there are several explanations why it happens. You will see that this isn't the last city of the attacked civ, and a neighbouring city even has an airport of its own (though all four slots were occupied). There might not have been enough space for the planes to go to (it was an 8-slot airport, all slots full), which appears to be the most plausible explanation. Yet, if I remember correctly, a similar scenario in Civ 5 simply led to the loss of your planes, which is what should have happened here if that were the case.