Air Combat

Victoria said:
hos no-one seriously looked at this before...
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The reason might be that no one is ever faced with a situation like this, unless playing MP :) I for one have never seen an AI air unit, ever. And their navy is usually dealt with by submarines.
Interesting topic however, im following.

Victoria said:
Patrols are weird and probably not helping with the bugs posted above here.
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Agreed. I would imagine "Patrol" should rather be named "Recon", having the aircraft patrol in the air just to reveal fog of war, and maybe defend itself. It just doesnt make sense to be able to target the aircraft on a patrol mission and then perform additional actions with it from the tile its patrolling on.
 
Ahhh that explains it

"COMBAT_ANTI_AIR_SUPPORT_BONUS_MODIFIER" Value="5"
"COMBAT_AIR_SUPPORT_BONUS_MODIFIER" Value="5"

So fighter (80) versus Cruiser (90) + 3 destroyers (+5 each) is +25 which is 65-97 damage with 81 being average... bang on what I have been guessing... so not +2 per support but +5
 
Olleus said:
It's probably the bombers CS but is it pitched against it the fighters CS or ranged strength?
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Ranged strength I believe... they are the same for fighters but I'll check tonight

However.... there is plenty unanswered and possibly a few gems out there like this one.

The unit XML claims the Minas Geraes has anti air of 75 and normal Battleships 65
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure Destroyers and even more so Missile Cruisers provided Anti Air. Because the carrier is in the middle of like 4 missile cruisers they defend the carrier a bunch.

I can also attest to the captured airport glitch. I took one and was still able to attack it even though I owned the city. I guess its useful in the very rare circumstance you capture a city but know you cant keep it and want to attack the airfield? I think its more likely its a glitch bc 1) you could just pillage it with a unit so easy and 2) if its a contested city theyre most likely not going to put air units in a captureable airfield

Something I'd think be cool to check out is what is better anti air protection for a city in the Atomic Era: a fighter or an anti air gun? Also if it's a coastal city how about a destroyer's anti air? The AA Gun has 75 "anti air strength" and the fighter has 80 "melee/ranged strength" so idk which one would be better lol
 
LedStone said:
Something I'd think be cool to check out is what is better anti air protection for a city in the Atomic Era: a fighter or an anti air gun? Also if it's a coastal city how about a destroyer's anti air? The AA Gun has 75 "anti air strength" and the fighter has 80 "melee/ranged strength" so idk which one would be better lol
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Well they all intercept using the same rules and have a 1 tile range although aircraft supposedly can only defend once.
I just checked a few while doing some nuke tests (4 sub nukes manages to waste 4 SAM protected cities, 4 bombers failed to bomb 4 cities with mobile sams)

Biplane = 55
AA =70
Destroyer = 70
Battleship = 70
Minas Garaeas = 75
Mobile SAM = 80
Fighter = 80
Missile Cruiser = 90
Jet fighter = 85

So protecting a city with a missile cruiser ideally, inland a mobile SAM will be even vs a fighter which seems odd.
 
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Olleus said:
I noticed mobile SAM vs fighter being even when I was doing some different testing earlier. That seems weird. Specially because when a fighter attacks a SAM (no military unit on top) the fighter deals more damage to the SAM than the SAM to it. I suspect that this is due to the SAM being a support unit rather than a combat one.
Anyway, thanks a bunch! All your testing has saved me hours of trying to understand whats happening
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NP, There is the difficulty bonus to consider... I just ran a test and they were roughly equal, the random factor will allow up to 12% difference at even combat

This where the SAm had +3 for difficulty
upload_2017-9-7_19-14-38.png
 
Victoria said:
You can then select that patrol plane and get it to attack something rather than patrol for the turn.... effectively giving it 8 range from the city/strip.
You can have a city which can house a single plane but feed many planes through the city to patrol areas around the city for a long time.... the city can house 1 plane but has 15 on patrol. I imagine this causes issues when the city is captured.
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lol, these are surely bugs? The first one seems especially bad...
 
Victoria said:
Both are from the game wiki if I remember, under patrol
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I can only assume that the wiki is then wrong, too. There is no logical explanation why those two things would work like that - and indeed they should not.
 
The range thing sounds to me like working as intended. But multiple planes on a city without an airport definately not.
 
Tech Osen said:
The range thing sounds to me like working as intended.
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How? If a fighter plane has a range of 4 and you can put it out on patrol 4 tiles away and then attack from there another 4 tiles away, effectively having a range of 8, how does it make sense?
Surely range translates to "distance able to travel (back and forth) before having to refuel at base". The patrol point ain't no base. An aircraft with a range of 4 should not be able to fly (and come back from) 8 tiles away from the nearest base.
 
Olleus said:
It might not be what you want, but you cannot call something working as it is documented and (as far as anyone can tell) intended to work, a bug.

I can't think of any realism reason for why it should be that way, but there are plenty of game play reasons why. It favours the defender for a start, and forces you to give your opponent a shot at attacking your planes first if going for a long range attack. I still think its stupid, but I haven't actually had an air war yet so I don't know if it actually makes the game better of worse.
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Come on, of course it's a bug x)
No plane in no game should say it's got a range of 4 tiles - and then be able to operate up to 8 tiles away from its base.
If this game was otherwise bug-free, maybe then I could begin to entertain the possibility that it is meant to work that way. But it's obviously one of the many bugs.

I mean, it is at best disappointing and at worst infuriating how we all (PC) gamers have become beta testers nowadays. If you released a product in any other industry that was as riddled with bugs and design faults as Civ6 is, you'd go out of business faster than you could say 'bankruptcy protection'.
 
Really looks like a feature from my point of view, just a badly documented one.

Aircraft should have those two attributes shown like "bingo fuel range = 8" , "operational range per turn = 4"
 
Stating that I think it's working as intended doesn't mean I like it. I prefer the old system where fighters would patrol around their city and strike out at attackers within their operational range. This time they combined the old patrol system with the old reconnaissance system, with questionable results.
I also noticed that the rebase option for fighters is affected by the patrol thingie. Wanted to move a few fighters that were patrolling at different spots around one city to another city to the west. Fighters west of the origin city could rebase, the ones to the east were considered out of range.
 
To defend your city you are best to have a missile cruiser and a SAM because the SAM seems to turn back nuke bombers. The issue is it does not stop other nukes. Having destroyers with +1 sight scanning for subs seems sensible regardless of whether a country has a navy or not. I think the "you are winning so we will nuke you" aspect of the game gets a bit tricky with nukes and its better to "win" early.

I agree the patrol double range thing is counter-intuitive, in that list of very bad ones but not in the game breaking list.
 
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