AI's speed in acquiring units

rafisher

Chieftain
Joined
May 18, 2001
Messages
82
Location
Minnesota

I'm trying to figure out how to defend
against the AI when it acquires a new
advance. For example, the screen pops
up saying French just got Machine Tools.
I click "OK" and I suddenly see 3 or 4
French artillery units within a few squares of one of my cities. How is the computer
able to get them so quickly and move them
also in one turn?

I find that when I acquire a new advance
and immediately purchase a new unit, it
still takes the next turn to use this
unit.
 
You just realized one of the AI's many 'cheats'. The turn they discover a tech, they immediately have some built and can use them.

The best way to defend against this is to have embassies with them so you know what tech they are researching. That way you will know a few turns ahead of time that those units will be coming.
 
This can particularly be annoying if Manhattan's project has been built and a civ a war with you discoveres rocketry (or nucklear fission).
 
Once I had a "pet" city of the Americans, their last one (Washington), completely surrounded by my cities. Each turn I'd send a spy in to just look at what they were up to. Their shield production was down to two per turn (the rest were used to support something like eight units in the city), BUT when they were building something like a cannon or engineer, EACH turn they'd contribute five or six shields more to the production. Also, when they were building SS structurals (they stole all the spaceship techs from me, which precipitated the war that brought them down to their condition), they would do these in two or three turns, WITHOUT spending any gold (I kept track of their treasury). Which peeved me because in that game, I was going for a max score, and wanted to launch my max-sized SS at the last possible year (2008) to get it there a year before forced retirement, all the while building metropolises all over the world.... But each turn my spy would look, that SS part would have like 40 or 50 more shields on its completion, with a city producing only two, no freights, and no money spent! So I had to launch in 1998 when they were close to being done with theirs (I would not break a treaty, and break up my democracy, to sabotage their production).

No worries, it was a high enough score (699%), and I won't play for max score anymore (TOO damned tedious, an hour for five or less turns at the end), but this is something I just wanted to share--the AI will cheat EVEN when you're watching them closely and catching them red-handed!
 
What was really strange in a recent Civ II game I played was that, when I attacked somebody's city, that city had riflemen defending it. While I had discovered conscription, this other civ had not, yet still got a rifleman! Unbelievable.
 

What was really strange in a recent Civ II game I played was that, when I attacked somebody's city, that city had riflemen defending it. While I had discovered conscription, this other civ had not, yet still got a rifleman! Unbelievable.
Could one of their allies have gifted it to them? They would not have had to also gift conscription to do this.
 
Well an advance like conscription would be pretty hard to get from a goody hut, since you stop getting advances from huts after you discover engineering - but then again who knows what the AI can do.

As for the production of unites and other things in AI cities with a low production - as far as I have observed, the AI doesn't build it's unites or improvements - it get's them. When an AI city starts producing a unite or building an improvement, then the it will be build in X turns, where X is a fixed number, that only varies fromi mprovement to improvement, or from unite to unite!!!

So it doesn't matter if the city has a low or high shield production it still builds the unite or improvement or Wonder in exactly the same number of turns.

I haven't sat down and calculated what the different number of turns for each improvement/unite/wonder is - I have better things to do, but I know that it takes less and less time to higher level you play, so just keep it in mind the next time you play a game - THE AI CITY'S SHIELD PRODUCTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW FAST THEY BUILD STUFF!!!!!!!!!!

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We are species 8472 - assimilation attempts are futile - the weak shall perish

No wait we are species 5618 and we got beer...... don't harm us!!!!!!
 
I just noticed in king level that the AI shield box only needs to be filled 8 to a row on early construction (as versus 10 for me)--versus 11 to a row on prince (i.e. that level gives the AI a slight handicap). I wonder how many to a row there are on higher levels. PLUS it's probably as the poster above said too--at least for wonders and spaceship parts--that the computer determines x number of turns regardless of production capacity of the AI city....

I noticed something else--in my new king game, I started using a tactic I never used before: I went to communism for a few turns (after building the statue), built a bunch of veteran spies, and used them to sabotage the piss out of a bunch of enemy cities. I destroyed temples and colloseums, put my republican rival in disorder in many cities, but the AI republic didn't collapse even though at least two of its cities stayed in disorder for three or four turns.... As we all know, if you the human let a city stay in disorder longer than one turn in republic or democracy, your government falls into revolution. So that's another inconsistency between human and AI....

(After about twenty turns at communism, I generated about 50 vet spies and went to democracy after building Suffrage.)
 
The higher the difficulty level, the less number of shields the AI civs need for something to be built. As we all shld know very well by now, there are lots of 'cheats' being employed by the AI. But then, Civ2 is pretty ancient by computer gaming stds, so we shld be a bit more forgiving. Besides, Civ3 is finally on the horizon and almost within sight.
 

So is this "cheat" the reason why my diplomat
tells me I'm about ready to take a capital
city and then on that turn, when I do take
the city, the palace has moved?

ps. Having read about or experienced many of the
AI cheats, will the upcoming Civ III have
these fixed? Frankly, the idea of fixed
bugs is more exciting than many of the
new improvements (with new bugs??)
 
Frankly, the idea of fixed
bugs is more exciting than many of the
new improvements (with new bugs??)
Yes, I agree. The AI should play by exactly the same procedures as me (expect for varying numbers of production box rows and varying aggression on different levels).
Make a better AI, don't let it cheat!
 
Yee Olde strategy says:

"Prince level(and higher) - The AI controlled civilizations may be 'assisted' by the computer if you are significantly ahead of them in technology. This is especially true in the case of Civilization Advance Research"

So I guess it ain't a bug, and probably will be the same in civ 111.

Since the Sept GOTM is at the warlord level, it will be interesting to see what our experiences will be regarding the AI getting the aide and assistance from the computer. Or will the AI play by the same rules as us for a change?

RJP
 
At times, I have spied on a city turn after turn to watch how the AI builds (at Deity). Under some conditions, a single shield of production can add more than one row of shields to a wonder construction!

Often, the "almost complete" wonder warning occurs when the AI has about 7 rows of shields complete. If you don't rush buy the wonder after the warning, the AI often completes the wonder (a couple shields of production suddenly fill those last 3 rows?!)
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The turn they discover a tech, they immediately have some built and can use them.

I've noticed this, another civ steals my mobile warfare and has a tank prowling round a turn or two later.

I'm also sure I've seen the AI upgrade units in the field without Leonardo - a caravel I headed into the black to meet came out a galleon.
 

I'm also sure I've seen the AI upgrade units in the field without Leonardo - a caravel I headed into the black to meet came out a galleon.

Now I've never caught the AI doing that before! I have watched it upgrade city defenders, though... without Leonardo's workshop. But to be honest, it may have been an "instant disbandment & produce a unit" thing. However, this was in a city... and cities produce units.

But your case is outside a city... in the field. I will keep an eye our for that, but I've run lots of games and tests, and never personally caught the AI upgrading a unit in the field without Leos
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