All Things Star Wars

[EvaDK]

If Kennedy believes a SW film she herself willed into existence will underperform, then why greenlight and announce the film in the first place?

Her method seems to be: hire a filmmaker/writer, announce the film they'll be writing/directing. The filmmaker or writer(s) turns in a script and Kennedy doesn't like it. The project falls apart, the filmmaker/writer moves on and the entire thing is cancelled.

The announced Rey sequel to TROS is now on it's fourth writer. They still don't know what this film will be about and it was announced at Celebration in 2023, almost two years ago.

 

[Kyriakos]

Wouldn't a Rey movie be set to bomb regardless of the writing?

 

[Arakhor]

Why would it?

 

[Kyriakos]

Why would it?

Afaik the last SW movie was the least popular of the trilogy (made less money) and it got "mixed reviews". Rey has been less than a stellar character, being divisive (in contrast to, say, Leia, Luke, Vader, Solo, Palpatine etc). All this is not a good basis for a new movie centered on her.

 

[Arakhor]

I'm almost certain that if we had a film about Leia, it would also meet "mixed reviews", with people complaining about her natural Force abilities, unearned talents and so on.

 

[Kyriakos]

Rey of Athens belongs to Coruscandople, regardless.

 

[EvaDK]

Well, TROS is a complete mess due to its script by JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio. We can't blame them for the sad passing of Carrie Fisher and how that blew a hole in their options though.

It's partly its own thing with the inclusion of several new supporting characters, that play no role in resolving the storyline. It's also partly a sequel to Abrams own TFA. Then it's also a semi-sequel of sorts to Rian Johnson's TLJ. And on top of that, it's also a sort of sequel to ROTJ from 1983 with the inclusion of Palpatine and Lando, both coming out of nowhere with zero buildup in this sequel trilogy.

The plot primarily revolves around a character searching for a MacGuffin, that will lead them to another MacGuffin, that will lead them to yet another MacGuffin. Palpatine is essentially reduced to a MacGuffin, just like Luke Skywalker was in TFA.

TROS is the equivalent of a puzzle that just doesn't fit together to make a singular image, because all the puzzle pieces are from different, seperate puzzle sets.

 

[Clubber Lang]

I wasn't aware the president of the company single-handedly concepted, wrote, directed, produced, filmed, and post-effected an entire movie. Nevermind a series of them.

The former chairman of Lucasfilm did all of the above and more.

 

[Gorbles]

The former chairman of Lucasfilm did all of the above and more -

Incorrect:

Industrial Light & Magic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(ILM doing obviously a lot / all of the post-effect work)

(Kurtz is normally credited, as I understand it)

Also pretty sure the three editors for A New Hope won the Academt Award for their work on that film. None of whom were George Lucas.

And also irrelevant to Kennedy being president, which is a very different role to the one Lucas had.

EDIT

I missed these, sorry.

If Kennedy believes a SW film she herself willed into existence will underperform, then why greenlight and announce the film in the first place?

Who said she believed it would? I didn't. There could be many reasons the company arrived at this decision.

What use is speculation that nobody can answer?

Her method seems to be: hire a filmmaker/writer, announce the film they'll be writing/directing. The filmmaker or writer(s) turns in a script and Kennedy doesn't like it. The project falls apart, the filmmaker/writer moves on and the entire thing is cancelled.

You can have any opinion on Kennedy you want. I'm not really interested in debating it all that much.

But again, kinda proving my point. The buck might stop with Kennedy, insofar as she's president and that role comes with obligations. But that's all. Anything else is nearly always just speculation which there's a whole cottage industry dedicated to effectively making stuff up out of thin air. Which is partly why I'm so disinterested in debating any of it.

Heck, me posting the article I did was because some rampant rumourmongering caused "she's leaving" to go viral, despite not being true! Isn't the sheer amount of disinformation somewhat problematic? Regardless of any opinions you may have or nor have about Kennedy or her time with Star Wars?

Also, it's funny that you put down the TV side of the output considering that's what got us gems like Andor (or Skeleton Crew). Output is going to vary when the creatives involved vary. That's the risk you take.

 

[Clubber Lang]

Incorrect:

The two pictured did it under thier boss's direction.

Also pretty sure the three editors for A New Hope won the Academt Award for their work on that film. None of whom were George Lucas.

Same with them.

And also irrelevant to Kennedy being president, which is a very different role to the one Lucas had.

Imagine if President Kathleen did concept, write, direct, produce, film, and post-effect entire movies and series all on her jacks...ahaha and ahohoho.

 

[Gorbles]

The two pictured did it under thier boss's direction.

You do understand how that's a completely separate thing to what I said?

Same with them.

I'm not sure you know how editing is supposed to work

Lucas' work is what got edited. Their job was to edit what he made into something that's better.

Imagine if Kathleen did concept, write, direct, produce, film, and post-effect entire movies and series all on her jacks...ahaha and ahohoho.

And that's why she's president, and not any of these other roles. Just as Lucas had a bunch of people to do stuff for him as well.

 

[Clubber Lang]

I'm not sure you know how editing is supposed to work

Lucas' work is what got edited. Their job was to edit what he made into something that's better.

I heard slightly different...

“Star Wars was saved in the edit” is nonsense​

Over the past couple of years, well decades, there has been a growing narrative about George Lucas.

It can be summed up as: ”George Lucas is the luckiest man in show business. He’s a hack who doesn’t know what he’s doing, but had ONE good idea. All his success is the result of other people!”

While I’m not a huge fan of the prequels, and while yes: Film is a collaborative medium and lots of skilled professionals made Star Wars what it is, this narrative is nonsense.

The worst example of this is that “Star Wars was saved in the edit”. Plenty of people have probably seen the video that claims that silly George had turned Star Wars into an almost un salvageable mess, but at the last minute was saved by his editors. In particular Marcia Lucas.

(Despite the fact that Lucas was overseeing the editing, and that Marcia Lucas fought to keep many of the worst ideas in the movie.)

I actually didn’t know that the “Star Wars was saved in the edit” video relies on half truths and falsehoods for its claim, until I started reading the brilliant “Making of Star Wars” book, and saw the video below.

If you’re interested in the making of Star Wars, or think that SW was actually saved in the edit, I can warmly recommend giving it a watch.''

 

[Gorbles]

@Clubber Lang, I said nothing about it being "saved". I'm saying that editing improves the work. That's the aim. That's why scripts have editors.

Again, I'm not sure you understand what an editor does. But that's neither here nor there. I appreciate you showing that even Lucas had a team capable of making their own decisions, and that this team contributed to the betterment of the final film.

It wasn't all Lucas, like you tried to claim. Just like it isn't all Kennedy, for whatever you blame Kennedy for.

 

[r16]

marcia Lucas got 50% of the company in the divorce . Like let us keep her out in the political argument stuff . Like Team Abrams of Abrams/Johnson couldn't do half of what Lucases did , right ?

 

[EvaDK]

Also, it's funny that you put down the TV side of the output considering that's what got us gems like Andor (or Skeleton Crew). Output is going to vary when the creatives involved vary. That's the risk you take.

I'm not putting down their output for Disney Plus. I'm addressing the fact that Kennedy announced that Lucasfilm would be releasing a SW feature film theatrically every year beginning from 2015. Episodic saga films, stand alone films and new trilogies. That entire vision and release plan was dropped (likely Bob Iger's decision). And as a result, Lucasfilm now primarily produces content for Disney's streaming channel. Which only recently started to turn in an actual operating income for Disney, after investing over $10bn into content for the platform.

Small correction, but Rick McCallum (in the image) was not a producer on A New Hope; he produced the prequel trilogy. We also know for a fact that Lucas co-edited on all six films released under his ownership, although not officially credited. He stated that one of the things he enjoyed about doing the prequels (apart from listening to Williams composing the score), was 'assembling' the films in the editing room, with the new digital editing tools available.

 

[Clubber Lang]

@Clubber Lang, I said nothing about it being "saved". I'm saying that editing improves the work. That's the aim. That's why scripts have editors.

Again, I'm not sure you understand what an editor does. But that's neither here nor there.

This -

''(Despite the fact that Lucas was overseeing the editing, and that Marcia Lucas fought to keep many of the worst ideas in the movie.)''

 

[Gorbles]

I'm addressing the fact that Kennedy announced that Lucasfilm would be releasing a SW feature film theatrically every year beginning from 2015. Episodic saga films, stand alone films and new trilogies. That entire vision and release plan was dropped (likely Bob Iger's decision).

Plans change. How can we read into them with any degree or certainty?

Like, I'm trying not to assume here. You replied to me talking about how people will find a new person to blame once Kennedy does actually leave, and you started this tangent on her . . . what, exactly? Her record?

Netflix and Disney had a spat that resulted in the Netflix Marvel superhero shows being cancelled and (apparently) Disney being unable to use them for a couple of years. Stuff happens all the time between these companies. Let's not get started on Fox and the X-Men.

Unless it's public record, we simply don't know. And even then it's often not corroborated (the good and the bad).

This -

''(Despite the fact that Lucas was overseeing the editing, and that Marcia Lucas fought to keep many of the worst ideas in the movie.)''

Yes, and? I'm struggling to understand the point. Editing is integral to the scriptwriting process. It exists completely independently of Star Wars, George Lucas, or Kathleen Kennedy.

 

[r16]

would like a full list of those worst ideas . Do not fall for a Trumpian sweep of removing women from everything . What's wrong about throwing Theory of Relativity from Star Wars to get Luke train for 8 months on Dagobah while it took 36 hours to reach Bespin from Hoth ? ı surely wouldn't get it in 1983 , the year Empire came to theaters in Turkey .

 

[Clubber Lang]

Yes, and? I'm struggling to understand the point.

You typed -

''Also pretty sure the three editors for A New Hope won the Academt Award for their work on that film. None of whom were George Lucas.''

and my point to that was this -

''Lucas was overseeing the editing''

You also typed -

''Lucas' work is what got edited. Their job was to edit what he made into something that's better.''

and my point on that was, regarding one of the editors work -

''Marcia Lucas fought to keep many of the worst ideas in the movie.''

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well, TROS is a complete mess due to its script by JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio. We can't blame them for the sad passing of Carrie Fisher and how that blew a hole in their options though.

It's partly its own thing with the inclusion of several new supporting characters, that play no role in resolving the storyline. It's also partly a sequel to Abrams own TFA. Then it's also a semi-sequel of sorts to Rian Johnson's TLJ. And on top of that, it's also a sort of sequel to ROTJ from 1983 with the inclusion of Palpatine and Lando, both coming out of nowhere with zero buildup in this sequel trilogy.

The plot primarily revolves around a character searching for a MacGuffin, that will lead them to another MacGuffin, that will lead them to yet another MacGuffin. Palpatine is essentially reduced to a MacGuffin, just like Luke Skywalker was in TFA.

TROS is the equivalent of a puzzle that just doesn't fit together to make a singular image, because all the puzzle pieces are from different, seperate puzzle sets.

TROS is essentially an apology letter to the fans disgruntled about TLJ. Whereas TFA was a love letter to fans disillusioned by the PT.

TLJ was a bold, albeit imperfect attempt to forge new ground/direction, that made a ton of fans wanting more TFA-style nostalgia and fanservice furious.

The contrast in Rotten tomatoes ratings arguably reflects this (TLJ= "fresh" tomato/critics - low "popcorn" fans ... TROS= "splat" tomato/critics - high "popcorn" fans).