All Warrior/Slinger start?

[Big J Money]

Tossing around the idea of a start with no scouts, but warriors and slingers instead. Here's my rationale:

- Scouts don't start with terrain bonuses anyway; you have to upgrade
- You need to kill early barb scouts anyway, or be prepared for war when one makes it through
- Being ready with an army for an early war seems good for the purposes of rampant settler and builder stealing (and pillaging). Even if you don't plan to go a full military game; these are all early game economic boosts
- Scouts seem to die more often than they did in Civ V. The map seems more crowded and they have a harder time ecaping bad situations due to the way movement costs work now

I won't claim this could be the best strategy, but I think it could be viable. Thoughts?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Scout:
- Has 3 moves.
- Is cheaper than both Warriors and Slingers.
- Gets experience for discovering things.
- Upgrades to Rangers, which are very useful with enough promotions, which require getting experience for them.

 

[rreebb]

With the policy that gives increased XP to scouts you should be able to upgrade them quickly, and then profit from better movement and more goodie huts. (I agree that the 3 vs 2 doesn't make that much of a difference in the beginning, especially due to rivers.)

 

[Cyberian]

It is probably viable but I would decide based on terrain to do it or not. If you have a large wood or hill area around I would still build at least one scout. Of course there is Aztecs with Monty where you probably go for an all out Eagle Warrior start. Then for many others I want one or tweo scouts and then build 3 slingers later so I can kill a unit with it and have 3 archers later for those two Eurekas.

Something not to be underestimated is the reduced build cost of the scout. Also scouts benefit extra from flat bonus to combat strength. An american scout on home continent with +5 barb bonus has combat sttrength of a regular warrior. Also Germany has stronger scouts because in the beginning you usually have +5 strength and double scout XP equipped. What I want with Germany is try an all outz scout rush and conquer one city state with it to get a second city early. But yes with the other civs I might only go one scout one slinger. Another option is buy a scout because it is the cheapest unit so you can put the money to use the quickest.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

If you are Sumeria you can build the war cart from the start. A strength 30 unit with 2-4? moves. Not maybe as good as a scout at scouting but you get a unit that can kill barb camps which is very useful for Sumeria.

 

[Big J Money]

I forgot a bullet point

- Seem to be far fewer goodie huts than CiV (from the vids I've seen)

 

[Cyberian]

If you are Sumeria you can build the war cart from the start. A strength 30 unit with 2-4? moves. Not maybe as good as a scout at scouting but you get a unit that can kill barb camps which is very useful for Sumeria.

I am not sure but don't you need the wheel for it? That is where heavy chariot unlocks. If its really available from start that would be awesome. But its probably pretty expensive so you might get two or three scouts for the price of one.
You might want to rush Military Tradidion first to get +100% cavalry production policy before you really crank those out en masse.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I am not sure but don't you need the wheel for it? That is where heavy chariot unlocks. If its really available from start that would be awesome. But its probably pretty expensive so you might get two or three scouts for the price of one.
You might want to rush Military Tradidion first to get +100% cavalry production policy before you really crank those out en masse.

No, War Cart is available right away.

 

[Big J Money]

Scout:
- Has 3 moves.
- Is cheaper than both Warriors and Slingers.
- Gets experience for discovering things.
- Upgrades to Rangers, which are very useful with enough promotions, which require getting experience for them.

These are good points, although I personally wouldn't want to focus scouts for the purpose of having better future scouts. They would have to give me something else. From what I've seen so far, by the time your scouts are really good it's too late to reap the best early benefits, and I'm not convinced that the automatic scout build from CiV is any longer the best move.

An island map, having these advanced rangers might be useful though, once everyone starts sending scouts out to overseas lands.

 

[Cyberian]

No, War Cart is available right away.

thats awesome do we know how much production it is?

Well of Souls does not have any info and there is no Sumeria lets play

 

[stealth_nsk]

These are good points, although I personally wouldn't want to focus scouts for the purpose of having better future scouts. They would have to give me something else. From what I've seen so far, by the time your scouts are really good it's too late to reap the best early benefits, and I'm not convinced that the automatic scout build from CiV is any longer the best move.

Rangers are good as hidden killers instead of scout. They are 1-range ranged unit with strong attack and pure awesomeness from promotions. I definitely want 1-2 of them.

thats awesome do we know how much production it is?

Well of Souls does not have any info and there is no Sumeria lets play

Sumers aren't available in the preview build. So no info if I remember correctly.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It is probably viable but I would decide based on terrain to do it or not. If you have a large wood or hill area around I would still build at least one scout. Of course there is Aztecs with Monty where you probably go for an all out Eagle Warrior start. Then for many others I want one or tweo scouts and then build 3 slingers later so I can kill a unit with it and have 3 archers later for those two Eurekas.

Something not to be underestimated is the reduced build cost of the scout. Also scouts benefit extra from flat bonus to combat strength. An american scout on home continent with +5 barb bonus has combat sttrength of a regular warrior. Also Germany has stronger scouts because in the beginning you usually have +5 strength and double scout XP equipped. What I want with Germany is try an all outz scout rush and conquer one city state with it to get a second city early. But yes with the other civs I might only go one scout one slinger. Another option is buy a scout because it is the cheapest unit so you can put the money to use the quickest.

Scouts benefit the EXACT same as modern armor from a+5
In civ6
10 str v 5 str is the same as 100 str v 95 str

 

[Big J Money]

Also Germany has stronger scouts because in the beginning you usually have +5 strength and double scout XP equipped. What I want with Germany is try an all outz scout rush and conquer one city state with it to get a second city early.

Definitely an interesting idea. Use the scouts to find all the city states, then pick the ones to attack. It might depend on whether city states begin with walls or not.

 

[Cyberian]

Scouts benefit the EXACT same as modern armor from a+5
In civ6
10 str v 5 str is the same as 100 str v 95 str

true that but imho what you would have to compare is

3 strength 20 scouts and 2 strength 30 warriors

versus

3 strength 10 scouts and 2 strength 20 warriors

I would say the flat bonus is more relevant for the scout because it is cheaper so you can have more of it. Three scouts have the production cost of two warriors.

 

[beorn]

An interesting idea, but I get the sense that getting effective exploration underway RIGHT NOW will be the priority. Goodie huts may be less numerous, but the bonuses from being first to find city states will loom large early on. The shorter build time and the additional movement point will change your odds in that regard.

 

[Cyberian]

An interesting idea, but I get the sense that getting effective exploration underway RIGHT NOW will be the priority. Goodie huts may be less numerous, but the bonuses from being first to find city states will loom large early on. The shorter build time and the additional movement point will change your odds in that regard.

I think that's probably especially true on higher difficulty. I like to play Emperor, Immortal or Deity and probably the AI get a head-start with additional units and such so you will really have to get something done as early as possible.

I'd say do a military heavy start compared to a scout heavy start only if you really put that military to early use like immediately killing a neighbouring AI or city state. If you just use them for scouting and the occasional barb that is a waste

 

[BrokenBokken]

I could see this being viable. There aren't as many huts and they aren't as powerful (with the exception of relics). Exploration really only matters in finding a continent and city states for the eurekas/inspirations which can be forgone if the benefit is high enough. Finding suitable city locations ideally doesn't require you to travel far so warriors should handle that easily.