Almost Newbie proposes PTW PBEM Alpha

The English barbarians are showing their true face.
They are missing the chance for a great civilized victory by attacking the weakest Nation on this planet, the peaceful Iroquois, who have always been a loyal neighbour only trying to civilize the jungle.
And as far as we know these English cowards they will call it "noble contest in fighting" in addition.
Having the best land around and the most successful scouts there were all chances for a great and noble victory of the English nation. Now these chances are gone forever.
We wish good luck to the brave Mongols and the noble Chinese who have to face these English barbarians furthermore.

We're sorry we can't deliver Salpeter to the brave Mongols any longer because it's stolen by the English barbarians.

gps
 
Happy New Year, everyone :D

--

Our advantage diminishes, and we lose a regular cavalry in defeating three artillery damaged veteran Iroquois cavalry.
One further vet cavalry is defeated by our now 2/4 cav.
The 2 warriors and musketman, that the Iroquois had left in no mans land, were despatched by elite knights and cavalry.

The noble Chinese do not respond to our diplomacy, so we erect walls around our southern towns.

The English ironclads set forth to patrol our coastline, and our other production swings towards barbarian playthings.

If the noble Mongols require saltpeter, please let us know. We shall be pleased to continue aiding their struggle against the Persians.

---

For the past few thousand years, the peaceful English have listened with awe to the tales of military derring-do that has occupied the rest of the world. And have made research co-operation trades with other nations - that have been abandoned by the other nations.
It seems to us that tales of great civilised victories, from the lips of such warlike and plotting tribes, have somehow lost a little in the telling.

It seems to us that Iroquois diplomacy is more an instrument of Iroquois will, than a desire to reach mutually advantageous results.
And we are not blind to the results of our advisors researching.
Naive newbies though the English may be, we will not be taken for fools.
 
We thank the English for their offer but the Mongols now have control of their own sources of iron, horses and saltpeter.

gps ------> WVCivnut
 
Many Congratulations :cool: :D :cool:
- although I have to say one was enough for us ;)

--

In the absence of battle reports, the English are going to have to learn to count their warriors, which seem to be disappearing...

Further slow advances into Iroquois territory, accompanied by the death of 5 Iroquois cavalry. Four of them were redlined, so I assume they may have attacked my second stack. My cavalry are now in desparate need of a barracks....

A redlined Mounted Warrior is despatched by a now veteran Cavalry just south of Stairway to Hell, where my elite knight used to be the turn before..

---

Our lonesome continental knight sees some interesting formations of 'peaceful' Mongols, just off the Persian border ;)
 
Still at peace. Just patroling our borders.:mischief:

gps --------> WVCivnut
 
As a player who likes such foolish things as trying to win a Sp-game of civ without ever building a single military unit (we call this "absolute pacifist") you might understand that I do absolutely not like what's happening in this game. But that's life ...
But perhaps you are interested in playing a pacifist PBEM? We would have no AI of course we are not allowed to build military units! What do you think about such a game? It would be nice to play such a game in such a group of fast players.

gps
 
We lose two cavalry and an ironclad, against 2 warriors, 2 cavalry and a MW.
The Iroquois raze their cities in front of our advance.

---

I would also be interested in such a game.
In your experience, how many pacifists are there on these forums?

Reading the threads, I assumed war always comes into it at some point...

And, being both newbie and paranoid, I always assume I'm about to be attacked, in the absence of any proof to the contrary.
 
bathsheba666 said:
And, being both newbie and paranoid, I always assume I'm about to be attacked, in the absence of any proof to the contrary.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's question of newbie and/or paranoid - it's only a question of style! I don't like to play Civ as a wargame and being in your fine position I might have troops as much as you have now. But I never would have the idea to use them in an offensiv war. If someone is attacking you at this point you'd be prepared to fight back. And otherwise you can peacefully win the game. What kind of satisfaction do you have from eliminating a defenselessly victim instead of fighting real opponents?
The Iroquois never had a chance in this game because of the geographical situation. The Chinese have problems with the resources and the Mongols with the Americans. So it was a very, very easy game for the English who had all of everything. If in this situation such a poor nation as the Iroquois is not given the chance to see the end of the game in their small and safely empire - what should they do in the next life? Building as much Mounted Warriors as soon as possible and trying to attack the English! There wouldn't be a real chance either, but there would be a sooner end for this poor game. And so your way of attacking a weak nation is the reason why you have to fear being attacked in the next life! In my point of view this is destroying the game of civilization I want to play.


bathsheba666 said:
I would also be interested in such a game.
In your experience, how many pacifists are there on these forums?
Click to expand...

I don't know who would like to play a pacifist game. In the German civforum there was only a very small number of players who were interested. Here in this forum everything is bigger so there might be enough players to fill 3 or 4 of such games.
But that's not the question because I'd like to play a pacifist game in this round. So, what about Greybeard? Would you play in such a game too? Then we could start a 4-player-game.
But before starting we had to talk about the settings. First we have to know what kind of civ: Civ4, C3C or even PTW? What would you like most? And what would you play not?

gps
 
When I am playing Epic games I tend to see war as a last resort. In this particular game I started out on a peninsula with no access to horses or iron. To even have a chance to survive I had to go to war with the neighboring AI civ to gain access to these resources. Even though I look on war as a last resort, I do not neglect my military and always assume that there is the potential for military conflict between me and any other civ. in the game.

As for playing a pacifist game I could see where that would be interesting as I have played other games that have limits put on them and have found that I have learned a lot from them.

As for joining in on a new game I would have to pass as I am currently in 13 pbem games and find this about my limit. Also I do not have Civ IV yet and in the event I get it I would like to have some time left to play it.
 
@Greybeard,

So in your experience do any/some/many other players on these forums adopt the same approach?
I know it's a very general question. But, when games run out of expansion room what percentage of them avoid conflict?


@Yakodi,

Well style also, yes, but I don't think you can dismiss the other factors so easily.
This is my second pbem.
If you come in with the sense that others must be more experienced, and you are likely to be outmanoeuvred by people with more experience (for example, I'm still not sure how you pulled that research coup at the end of the MA where you and especially Persia suddenly had more techs) then you tend to play more defensively.
Perhaps with more experience, I shall relax a bit.
Also, it is relevant to know what in general were the chances that, in my position, I would not be attacked by a neighbour.
Particularly if I have no means of knowing in advance that they are a pacifist.
And remembering your comment to Hawklord (in the balanced/cross game whose name escapes me) I would not necessarily put the two together - but I guess that was just diplomacy.
 
One of the cities we captured in the war with Persia has switched back to a Persian city.:mad:

gps -------> WVCivnut

@ Bathsheba: It's hard to generalize about peoples method of play. There seems to be as many variations as there are players. That's what makes it interesting for me.
 
@bathsheba

You never can know who will attack you and who won't. Your expecting that everyone will do and that is seeing the world just like my father: everyone is bad and you will have to distrust him. I make it just the other way round: I'm expecting that no one will do me any bad and so I trust him - until I'm beeing disappointed for the first time by him. But from this point on he never get's a second chance! In my eyes this is the easier way of living - in RL just like in Civ.
You didn't answer my question: What is satisfying in destroying a weak and defenselessly nation that never had any means to attack you and even is far behind in scientific research?

@all

We have a real problem now: I'm loosing my silks at least next turn. In my style of playing I'm destroying roads that I had laboriously build, just in order to give them not into the hands of the English barbarians. When trying to do this with the roads upon my silks (so that I'm loosing them this round already) the game is crashing! I even can't look at the existing trades with the Mongols - the game is crashing too when trying to do so.:(

So now we have the situation that I can't play the way I'd like to do. In order to keep the game going I had to do things that I'm not willing to do and I think we nevertheless would have the problem in the next round or the round after the next round.
What should we do in this situation?:confused:
 
@Yakodi

This is a game right? But, anyway, sorry to remind you of your father.

I thought you were weak, but I did not realise you were defenceless.

If I should feel at all guilty in the real world, then I should also remember that I tried to take the move back.
But this is not done, so I have now learned a few newbie lessons in the game.

You have made no diplo proposals since the time we agreed our slate was wiped clean.
You took the view that it was my obligation to offer you something.
This view seems not to have been productive.
So perhaps you could make a proposal.
I guess you have to adapt your tactics to the way things are.

Sorry to hear about the crashes.
 
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