Am I Stupid For Not Returning This Game?

[Psyringe]

Not much. Piracy has been around for a long time...I remember cracked software being available in the mid 90's.

I remember cracked software being available in 1982. Now how old must I be if I can tell that to an *old* Statesman ...

 

[oldStatesman]

I remember cracked software being available in 1982. Now how old must I be if I can tell that to an *old* Statesman ...

Was that Gates ripping off Apple...no, that was later in the decade, hmmm, perhaps Apple Ripping off Zerox...no that was in the 70's...never mind...

 

[Efexeye]

It's really not that different. Really up until around mid-2004 nearly every US EB I had visited had the same 7-day "No Questions Asked" policy.

Sorry, I'll need some proof of that before I just swallow it. I haven't been able to return/exchange a game to Gamestop, Fry's, Babbage's, EB Games, Best Buy or anywhere since about 1992.

 

[King Flevance]

It's been a month now. I downloaded v1.09 but Civ 4 still crashes my computer. Crashes. My. Computer. I've run XP for years now. Nothing, ever, ever, ever has crashed my computer. I never knew what a XP blue screen looked like before Civ 4 came around. No, I don't need to upgrade my computer. From what I read around here, there are lots of people who have top of the line computers and still can't run this game.

I'm not knocking the quality of the game, from what I can tell, it's a great game that I will eventually waste entirely too much time on but what happened with the release though? Why is Civ 4 the most buggy piece of software ever on my computer? I'm out $50 and all I've had the pleasure of doing was spending hours combing these boards for answers and updating (and downgrading) every driver known to mankind. Firaxis please tell me when I'm going to have a game to play here.

I have been here before. IMO, if you cant get through to Firaxis (been there too, as in no reply.) I would return it if you 'need' the money for anything else. Even as much as a different game to play. I hear AOE 3 is pretty awesome. Civ 4 is great and probably the best yet, if it runs. Otherwise, its a piece of junk. This release was piss poor IMO as well. Its funny that people as you say 'Never have seen issues on my computer until Civ 4' I am the same way personally. It shows that you dont run out and buy any game expecting it to run. But rather that people like us DO make sure we are optimized as best we can before purchase. So ignore any 'most games BS. Most games do not, not in my experience and not if you try to get it working.

What most games have is small installation issues. Not system crashing failures. I am glad I don't see it as 'most games' because I swear I would quit playing PC games. If that statement offends anyone reread the first two lines of this paragraph.

I would suggest either taking the game back if you really want something else too. However, in the sake of another Civ'er, give Firaxis a chance to fix it for you through email/phone call. It really is a great new version of the old classic. Expansion Packs will revamp the basics of this great version as well I would bet.

 

[Machete Phil]

Sorry, I'll need some proof of that before I just swallow it.

First of all, Gamestop, Babbage's, Fry's, etc. are all seperate entities from Electronics Boutique.

Or were anyway, until the recent merger.

I know most places stopped accepting software exchanges in the 90s, but I speak from personal experience that I was returning PC and PS2 games to EBGames as recently as last Summer.

Provided I had a receipt and it was within ~10 days time. I think I probably returned a total of 20 games this way between 1995 and 2004.

I think I was asked why one time, and told the truth, "It's not fun at all and I don't want it," and they still accepted the return.


It was a pretty customer-friendly policy. Which I guess is why it has been cut in their recent merger with Gamestop.

 

[Efexeye]

First of all, Gamestop, Babbage's, Fry's, etc. are all seperate entities from Electronics Boutique.

Or were anyway, until the recent merger.

I know most places stopped accepting software exchanges in the 90s, but I speak from personal experience that I was returning PC and PS2 games to EBGames as recently as last Summer.

Provided I had a receipt and it was within ~10 days time. I think I probably returned a total of 20 games this way between 1995 and 2004.

I think I was asked why one time, and told the truth, "It's not fun at all and I don't want it," and they still accepted the return.


It was a pretty customer-friendly policy. Which I guess is why it has been cut in their recent merger with Gamestop.

I am aware that they are different companies/entities, that's why I lumped Best Buy in there....

You are generalizing your experience as if it is the norm- trust me, it's not.

When you say "accepted the return" does that mean they gave you your money back? Store credit? What?

 

[cleverhandle]

I love the people who act like buggy games are some new-age phenomenon that offends our entrenched cultural mores. This is absolutely nothing new, and it wasn't any different when computers were "simpler". Old-timers can tell you about fighting with extended/expanded memory on old DOS games - every new, cutting-edge game required serious voodoo and arcanery to get things working right. Sometimes, similar to the present, you'd bump into conflicts between device drivers fighting over the same address space or games that insisted on putting sound in certain ranges that wouldn't work on a given rig. Same general problem, but it was way, way uglier and more difficult than it is now. Even after all that you'd get bugs. Arena, anybody? You couldn't finish the game in the shipped version due to a bug!!

Relax, people. It's a game. If it doesn't work, you can either devote the (sometimes significant) resources to revamping your hardware and software or you can wait for other people to find solutions and patches to be published. Same as it's always been, just that people are more impatient and self-righteous these days...

 

[King Flevance]

If it doesn't work, you can either devote the (sometimes significant) resources to revamping your hardware and software or you can wait for other people to find solutions and patches to be published. Same as it's always been, just that people are more impatient and self-righteous these days...

I agree with everything until this part. We spent resources on a game that claimed to work on 'current resources'. Telling people they should just spent new resources on upgrades is far from the answer here. The thing alot of people are complaining about is the incompatability that seems bias towards certain brands/configurations. Namely that no other game has ever been bias to their configuration.
Now, granted, this was my own personal experience. I can't vouch personally for everyone on here. But whenever someone brings up THIS particular problem. People hijack the topic with. "This is nothing new". If it is, I must have extremely good taste in video games and one hell of a configuration. Which is mostly default anyways so I doubt that. There is no conflicting hardware on my system. Neither with software that I am aware of. Yet, I still get told my computer is 'too ****ty' to run the game upon loading it up. When it meets everything and exceeds.

The thing I think that makes this a poor release is the fact that the game has a tendancy to look you in the face and tell you, "You can't make me work." That means the game has flaws I have never seen. I have been playing PC games since around 1993 at age 13.
Now, I have invested I dont know how much in games. I have only ran across a similar and worse problem with a game called '7th Guest'. I dont remember who made it and I ended up throwing it away because it was worthless. Anyways, I know too I havent played every game on release. There may be a 'plague' on software in some hidden part of the world to me. I am glad it is hidden and out of the titles I tend to play. However, if this 'plague' is true, why doesn't the gamer community step in with regulations?
Code of Regulations are not a bad thing. They established labor laws, FDA which I am sure you are glad they exist, and OSHA. Why not have one for computer software. It is very similar to architecture in theory. The problem with this idea is very easily arguable with 'we dont have a foundation for regulations' Neither did any of the companies I listed. A computer age 'revolution' would have to take place. ALL our systems at this time most likely would not be to code and we would have to buy a new one for the regulations. (Similar to the idea behind gaming consoles, but would easily be branched out and expanded upon. I think this is where Gates is going to aim for with the Xbox IMO)

 

[cleverhandle]

Telling people they should just spent new resources on upgrades is far from the answer here.

I'm not saying it's a good answer, and I'm certainly not telling you or anybody else in particular to do it. Just saying that's it's a possibility. As I mentioned in another thread, I had a copy protection issue with Diablo II when it was released that I "solved" by buying a new CD drive to replace the otherwise perfectly functional unit I started with. To me, for that game, it was worth it. To somebody else, it wasn't and they sold off their copy or put it on the shelf until the issue was resolved (not sure it ever was, BTW). But it was my choice, and I know that that's how PC games are, for better or for worse. If that choice is intolerable to somebody, then they need to vote with their feet and hold off buying the game until it's well-patched or until there's a demo they can check their hardware with.

 

[Thalassicus]

Suing someone for bugs in a game. LoL!!

If anyone ever did that to EA they'd be out of business

 

[MarkC1]

Just resell your copy!

Id be willing to buy a used civ 4 for about 30 bucks

 

[Flak]

I'm not wrong at all. Civ 4 doesn't crash every few minutes for me. Bad analogy.

Maybe you are having problems, but like I said, most games are like that so soon after release. If you don't like it, wait a bit longer before purchasing a newlly-released game.

This is an unhealty attitude for a customer to have. As a software engineer in a variant of the gaming industry with several buddies who work for PC gaming companies, I'd be willing bet good money that there is no one at Firaxis that would accept your philosophy of initial game releases as good or common business practice.

Also I think there must be a problem with your machine. My machine can run Quake 4, AOE III and Black&White 2 with no problems whatsoever. That's without upgrading a single driver or having to do any other exceptional bit of maintenance. No memory leaks with those games, no crashes, just smooth game play right out of the box. Ofcourse Civ IV wouldn't even start on my machine. Not even after the patch. But other high powered recent games can run just fine. And I did finally get Civ IV working, and it works great now that it is working, but I don't think Firaxis would accept that as the standard for their engineering of game titles. This is evidenced even by the fact that supposedly that game has run on most people's machines, including some machines well below the minimum specs, just fine!

I don't have a problem with customers and the engineers at Firaxis having a higher standard. You really shouldn't either.

 

[Multiplicity]

It is unacceptable for companies to do this.

I think it is bigger than a small subset, i'd estimate at least 1 in 5 players have had problems. Just check out the tech forum (these are people that have problems (thousands and thousands) and this is just ones complaining on this tech forum on this website!)

The more we accept it the more it'll happen.

Apathy rules.

1 in 5? Where did you get this assumption from? There are just over 72.3 thousand registered accounts on this forum. A certain percentage, probably small, of those are likely to be 2 or more accounts to be registered by the same individual. There have been many units of Civ IV sold, way more than 72,300. 72.3K does not even make 50% of all people who purchased the game especially since the game is sold worldwide. Furthermore, not all members on this sight have purchased Civ IV and to add, not all members on these forums dislike the game or experienced the same problems, if any. So before you started throwing around arbitrary estimates around, do the research.

 

[Zinegata]

I really have to wonder sometimes if all of these apologists have ever thought of it this way:

What if the game they are playing now, which they claim is so wonderful, stopped working?

No tweaking of settings worked. No upgrading of drivers worked. And no money is available to upgrade the PC, and even if the PC was upgraded (and let's say they borrowed money to do it), the upgrade didn't work and the game still won't run.

Would they blame themselves? Would they not be angry at other people laughing at them for not being able to make the game run? Would they still say that the industry standards are adequate? Or would they blame Firaxis, who promises a patch that might get the game working again in a few weeks?

I also wonder how these people will react if when Civ V is released, they alone are the people who can't run the game, and it turns out to be the greatest Civ ever?

If that indeed happens, I would love to say it was poetic justice, but then I wouldn't want to be as inconsiderate as they are now.

 

[Dairuka]

Would they blame themselves?

I'd blame myself if Civ 4 stopped working. Mostly because if it did, it'd obviously be because I accidentally downloaded a destructive malware or virus from the internet, while on my daily sprawls across the world wide web in search of porn.