An Evaluation: Why CIV 5 is an absolute atrocity.

[Flavorable]

So my point still stands?

They didn't really do anything in SC2 that they hadn't already done in SC1 in terms of gameplay.

Civ V had to reconsider how to handle everything related to military and balance it accordingly.

 

[Branoic]

See, this thread title is why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer some times. Auschwitz was an atrocity. 9/11 was an atrocity. The release of a game you don't like? Not so much.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

See, this thread title is why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer some times. Auschwitz was an atrocity. 9/11 was an atrocity. The release of a game you don't like? Not so much.

Yep, this is called "devaluing the English language". Journos do it all the time; perhaps he is one.

 

[devilhunterred]

I call BS on embarrassment. What are they going to do? Cancel them because they're too embarrassed? Even if they're profitable?

Embarrass wasn't the ideal word, but it just makes the event look bad.

For example in WCG you have numerous FPS events, including the latest COD, newest Halo, Painkillers.........and other modern popular titles, and then you have CS 1.6 Player models in that game are still consisted of squares and rectangles.

Steam made CS:S as a solution, but unlike SC2 that didn't go too well with the competitive fan base of the original.

 

[Ecori]

I haven't played ciV yet, but am going to pick it up this afternoon.

I really loved cIV BtS, been playing it for years and becoming decent at it. However, I hated it when vanilla was released. I actuallly kept playing cIIIv conquest until BtS was released. So I had hoped that ciV wouldn't be like that.
After reading your thoughts I'm quite relieved.

Your "bad" things:

"Absurdly Lacking MP Support"
- I don't play MP

"No SP Scenario"
- I'm completely satisfied by the quick play

"No Tile Animation"
- sucks, but I think the modders will correct that pretty fast

"No Religions"
- Religions was great in BtS simply because they divided the world in alliances and made some hate/love happening in the games. The bonuses was pretty cool to, and I liked that you had to spread it among your cities.
However, founding religions and getting bonuses from that never got to work properly. On Immortal it was simply too expensive and too big a gamble to try to found the religions. It was much more efficient to let the AI do the job themselves. This was pretty much an innate AI culture/commerce bonus.
If Firaxis implemented some way to replace religions as a mean to create alliances then I do not mourne the absence of religions.

"No Espionage"
- Love that it is removed! Esp was the biggest mistake in BtS. Completely impossible to accrue enough of to be useful on Immortal, while the AI gets so massive bonuses to it that they get a free harassment against you.

"No Civics"
- Civics was pretty well thought out and added tactically consideratings to the game.

"No Hamlets"
- really a shame

"No World Wonder Movies"
- never watched them anyways

"No End Game Cinematics"
- didn't watch them either. I was to busy loading the next game

"No Commerce, Research and Culture Sliders"
- slider never really worked since you would almost always want to keep your research slider as close to 100% as possible anyway

"No Random Events"
- random events was stupid, imbalanced and game breaking

"User Interface"
- dunno bout that one

"City States"
- I think they might have their place on the higher difficulty settings

"Framerate Problems"
- run low graphics then. who cares about graphics in a civ game?

"No Leader Personality Traits"
- sucks!

"One Leader Per Nation"
- I actually like this! Always seemed stupid that the US should have 3 leaders. And it got really annoying when playing random leader. Since this was based on civ and not leader it ment you would get say Lincoln 1/3 of say Hammurabi.

All in all this doesnt sound to bad to me.

The good things:

"Hexagonal Tiles"
- this is just awesome!

"No Military Unit Stacking"
- great! But i cannot stop to wonder how the AI will stand a chance on even the higher difficulties when they don't have their 100+ unit SoD

"Strategic Resource "
- I always wanted this!

"Fully 3D Leaders with Spoken Native Language"
- the native language is pretty cool

All in all I'm if not happy then not to disatisfied by these changed. SOunds like a different game. But ofcourse I will have to play it this afternoon to se what it actually feels like

 

[devilhunterred]

The content issue will remedy itself considering modding will be so much more important. In that respect, 2k did pretty damn well.

By your logic, Firaxis should just forget about developing the actual game, and should instead develop a pure mod tool kit that comes with the physics and graphic engine, slap a price label on it and let the mod community do what they want with it to build their own ideal Civ game.

I can see the future of CIV VI now: Professional Mod Toolkit 6000- Everything You Need to Build the Latest Civilization Game!

 

[warhead66]

This entire Civilization vs. starcraft debate is ridiculous and people placing these "comparisons" obviously have little to no experience in either games:

you can't compare these games.. at all. End of story.

why is that? Well:

1. Starcraft is Rts, the very core of the game is multiplayer, the main focus of the sc2 was to provide better competitive play and new strategies. This doesn't require new units, it requires minor changes in every aspect of the game

2.Civ on the other hand has a endless universe of units, "races" and maps. so the only way to make the game refreshing is by changing core features of the game and adding new things.

3. not only is civ turn based and starcraft time based, they are both known as the pioneers for both things. You can find Koreans with 400 apm, an IQ of 150 and still spot them being unable to time everything in sc. not because it's impossible, but simply because the multi tasking feature of sc is so incredibly huge. With civ however even people with the most insane overview, neediest macro skills and vast knowledge of game details, can get struck by surprise.

As for spies, religions, nations and so on: try playing civ 3 expansion and civ 4 vanilla, tons of stuff was removed (as well as added) here as well. All i hope for is that vanilla DLC's will be included in the upcoming expansions because 5 bucks for a civ is absolutely ******ed..

 

[bossconian]

By your logic, Firaxis should just forget about developing the actual game, and should instead develop a pure mod tool kit that comes with the physics and graphic engine, slap a price label on it and let the mod community do what they want with it and build their own ideal Civ game.

I can see the future of CIV VI now: Professional Mod Toolkit 6000- Everything You Need to Build the Latest Civilization Game!

But this is what they actually did with one exception. They released a gameshell but didnt provide mod tool kit / world builder. The lack of content is eyestriking.

 

[cr0ws]

Don't like it? Go play FreeCiv!

Or wait for the rest of content to be released when the "expansion" is available...geez gamers are such drama queens these days.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling/flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[devilhunterred]

Don't like it? Go play FreeCiv!

Or wait for the rest of content to be released when the "expansion" is available...geez gamers are such drama queens these days.

Geez, since when are gamers such illiterate and uncivilized douchebags like you these days......

Moderator Action: Flaming -warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Yea we may not like the game, but we are still debating about it in a civilized manner providing evidences and reasoning to back them up.

 

[Slecht]

In my opinion it's just a thing you see with most of the games today, they make it easy 'for everyone', a game for the masses. Often people don't have the time and/or don't want a learning curve, this is just how a game sells better, when things get more easy, mostly you don't hear many people complaining, except of course if you have some old civ players / hardcore gamers who like to put allot time in a game.

The last few years it's hard to find any really good games for the PC, we now got BIG game makers who just bought other game makers, where it just becomes more and more important to make allot of money, so we now lack SPIRIT/Love when they make games these days. But this is just how pathetic our western civilization has become these days; we sell things on the cheapest way possible! (you can read that as cheap womans who sell their body's) So you see this just everywhere, music, movies, you name it.

Of course I know they put allof of hard work making this game and many many will be happy with this game. Maybe me too later, I try..

 

[Flavorable]

By your logic, Firaxis should just forget about developing the actual game, and should instead develop a pure mod tool kit that comes with the physics and graphic engine, slap a price label on it and let the mod community do what they want with it to build their own ideal Civ game.

I can see the future of CIV VI now: Professional Mod Toolkit 6000- Everything You Need to Build the Latest Civilization Game!

You complained about custom scenarios? That will definitley be fixed with endless amounts of mods. You want religon/cottages/Civ4 gameplay back? Guess what...

mods can do that. (Although really, if you came into Civ 5 wanting it to play exactly like Civ 4, then just go back to Civ 4. They released a game, a barebones, essential core of a game, it has enough content to sustain me for 1 or maybe even 2 months. Then a modkit is released and the game becomes endlessly replayable and modular and the possibilities become infinite.


I won't lie, you really sound like you're trying to complain.

 

[snoochems]

Did you even play Civ IV?
<snip>
I played for cultural victory most games, so I understand corporations become unused in certain strategies.

Totally off topic, but I used Corporations to great affect in Cultural victories. Forget the exact names, but Sids-Sushi-Co + Creative-Constructions + the Gems one = butt load of culture.

I for one miss corporations. But they where a little OP a large maps with lots of resources. Could basically take over the world with culture.

 

[devilhunterred]

Totally off topic, but I used Corporations to great affect in Cultural victories. Forget the exact names, but Sids-Sushi-Co + Creative-Constructions + the Gems one = butt load of culture.

The income side of the corporations always appealed to me more, supported so much upkeep of my military.

 

[cr0ws]

I can see the future of CIV VI now: Professional Mod Toolkit 6000- Everything You Need to Build the Latest Civilization Game!

Actually I ADORE that idea!

 

[devilhunterred]

This looks to me to similiar to the Star Trek odd numbers curse. Civ odd numbered are stepping stones to their successors where they make right where they failed before. So based on that, I would say, wait 5 years and play Civilization 6 because it will be everything you hoped 5 would be.

If your predictions come true that's just awesome.......

 

[devilhunterred]

Actually I ADORE that idea!

I know you do. But still, most of us don't. And I dare say, more than 75% of us?

Personally for me there is nothing more I want than for future CIV games to develop some kind of an online multiplayer community, similar to other online RTS/strategy games. And it will be very hard to find a common standard platform to compete online if everyone is playing their own custom mod version of CIV.

 

[SuperSmash5]

Oh come on. Are you saying this is a serious list of grievances? Most of those points are laughable.

 

[Flavorable]

Honestly, devilhunterred, it sounds like you just can't appreciate something thats different. What other Civ games have you played?

Edit: We both live in Edmonton. Where do you live near. I'm in Blue Quill southside.

 

[R0gue]

All disappointing remark I will disregard until I can actually play the full game. I am from England I do not have Civ 5 till today, I have been playing Civ 5 demo. Even 100 turns has kept me interested. I will get the full game today. I see a repeat of the same remarks in the last couple of days. There is No Espionage, No culture spread, no hamlets bla bla bla. Some of these features the person is complaining about did not even come into the original Civ IV, until they were added with Warlords/BTS expansions and mods. Why don't these ppl shut the F**K up, majority of us will not even get the game until today and these remarks are not helping. Why don't these ppl come back in 3-5 yrs when the expansion/mods are added. Then make a proper review and THEN and only THEN you can say then say which is better CIV IV or CIV V.