An idea for expanding civics ... with matter !

[SadoMacho]

@Vishaing :

a 5 by 5 civic system with original categories :

Spoiler :

[ Goverment

1. Despotism
2. Olichargy (+25%gold, hammers in capital, +1 from city wall)
tech: monarchy upkeep : low
3. Hereditary Rule (+1 from military unit in city)
tech: monarchy upkeep : low
4. Dictatorship (+10% Mil. Prod., +2 from broadcasttower (propaganda))
tech : fascism upkeep : High
5. Representation (+25% Warw, +1 health with ecology,
penalty for civ's without Repr."Our people demand representation!!!")
tech : Constitution or democracy upkeep : middle

Legal

1. Tribalism
2. bureaucracy ( +1 from courthouse, +2 culture from granary, palace : + 2 culture, +1 )
tech : code of law upkeep : medium
3. Vassalage (+2 XP, +1 from castle)
tech: Feudalism upkeep : Medium
4. Police State (-50% Warw, -10% culture, +1 from jail)
tech : fascism upkeep : High
5. Free Speech (+ 100% great people, +10% science, +100% culture)

Labor

1. Nature state
2. Slavery (hurry by sacrifice population, +50% workerspeed, +1 food from plantations
+1 hammer from quarry , +2 unhappy)
tech : bronzeworking upkeep : middle
3. Serfdom (+1 gold from cottage, hamlet, village; +1 food from Pastures; +10% hammer with guilds)
tech : feudalism upkeep : low
4. Caste System (1 free specialist per city, unlimited artist, priest, scientist)
tech : code of law upkeep : high
5. Industrialisation (+1 hammer form workshop,lumbermill; +1 unhealth, +10% hammer)
+5% extra hammer with Electricity)
tech : steam power upkeep : low

Economy

1. Decentralization
2. closed economy : +1 hammer from farm
tech : metal casting upkeep : low
3. Mercantilism : (No foreign trade routes, unlimited mechants)
tech : banking upkeep : middle
4. Free market (+1gold/ spec., +1 trade route, +100% growth for cottage, hamlet, village)
tech : economy upkeep : low
5. state property : +1 food from farm, +1 gold from watermill, windmill, lumbermill, Workshops)
tech : communism upkeep : high

Religion

1. Nature religion (no state religion)
2. Organized Religion (unlimited priets, missionaries without monstary, +10% culture with state religion)
tech: priethood upkeep : middle
3. Theocracy : (+2XP, -10% science, +1 extra with state religion, +1 unhappy from non state religion, +2 culture from specialists)
tech : Divine right upkeep : high
4. Ateism : (+1 unhappy from non state religion, +10% science, +3 science from specialist, +1 from colloseum, no state religion)
tech : scientific methode upkeep : middle
5. Free religion : +1 from religions, +1 from colloseum, no state religion)
tech: liberalism upkeep : low

but i still like my old ideas better!

edit : Legal and labor are diffictult to separate, that's why i like a social civic category better.

any comments?

 

[Phallus]

Interesting proposals SadoMacho but I have a couple of questions

1. Nature state?

2. Aside from a few violent and short-lived communist governments, what logic is there in including state-enforced atheism? Why would it make colosseums more fun?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Yep, personally I would rather have Orthodoxy or Pacifism in there than Atheism.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[SadoMacho]

1 : Nature state : when people stated agreculture, they lived in small settlement, working the land without any organisation. They were all free and equal. If they didn't work the land, they died.

2. Colosseums more fun : if you don't need to go to church on sunday, you can go watch sports in the modern day colosseums. That's fun (if you're male), even more fun than church I think.

If tou look at West-Europe now, they are practicly atheist, but not state forced.
1.300.000.000 Peolpe live in a forced atheism state now : China (well, officially atheist).
Orthodoxy is a relegious sekt of a religion, it is a nice word for fundamentalism.
Pacifism : what does this mean? I never understood this civic. Is this religions living next to each other, than it should be 'Free Religion'. Or what is it? Please tell me?
And don't spank me for not knowing, spank me because I like it!

 

[Hitti-Litti]

^^

If you're pacifist, then you hate violence. If in Civ a nation adopts Pacifism, it is India.

Pacifism is kind of a belief, that no cases should be solved with violence.

 

[SadoMacho]

This form of pacifism is more of a part of religion. Judasim has 'eye for an eye', so has Islam, christianity has (in theory) forgiveness, 'turn the other cheek'.

India : During Ghandi's time, there was a lot of violence between Hindu's and Muslims.
If you find state forced atheism not realistic, then state forced pacifism is completely f#cked up because if never existed in real live, Atheism did, in the Soviet Union, the Warshau Pact, Cuba, China, ...
But...
it didn't live long indeed
Perhaps a Pagan civic??? For Civ's before the have a 'true religion'

 

[Phallus]

1 : Nature state : when people stated agreculture, they lived in small settlement, working the land without any organisation. They were all free and equal. If they didn't work the land, they died.

Ah yes, that makes sense. Perhaps it should be called 'Sustenance'?

2. Colosseums more fun : if you don't need to go to church on sunday, you can go watch sports in the modern day colosseums. That's fun (if you're male), even more fun than church I think.

I suppose it must have been fun to live under Stalin or Mengistu.

1.300.000.000 Peolpe live in a forced atheism state now : China (well, officially atheist).

Atheism was briefly enforced and it did have an impact, but like most of Mao's adventures it ultimately failed. Taoism and Ancestral Worship survive as popular folk-religions and Buddhism is slowly recovering.

If you find state forced atheism not realistic, then state forced pacifism is completely f#cked up because if never existed in real live, Atheism did, in the Soviet Union, the Warshau Pact, Cuba, China, ...

I think you misinterpret Pacifism. Rather than thinking of the secular government of India and the partition, think of the Quakers or the Buddhist king Ashoka.

 

[SadoMacho]

'Sustenance'

yes, that could be a beter name.

I suppose it must have been fun to live under Stalin or Mengistu.

that's because of the dictatorship and the police state, and they couldn't worship the gods and fals idols

Atheism was briefly enforced and it did have an impact, but like most of Mao's adventures it ultimately failed. Taoism and Ancestral Worship survive as popular folk-religions and Buddhism is slowly recovering.

'Religion is opium for the people', that's a qoute from the chinese dictionairy (and a book from a writter named Marx)

I think you misinterpret Pacifism. Rather than thinking of the secular government of India and the partition, think of the Quakers or the Buddhist king Ashoka.

So, pacifism is part of the religion of the Buddhists and the Christian Quakers, the christian Amish, and other religions.
This startes again the discsion again of the different forms of a religion. Does the religious civic represent the interpretation for the religion (sekt forming) or the way a Civ handles religion(s) in the borders.

 

[Phallus]

that's because of the dictatorship and the police state, and they couldn't worship the gods and fals idols

But how would a state actively dismantle a religion without leaning towards extreme authoritarianism?

Religion is opium for the people', that's a qoute from the chinese dictionairy (and a book from a writter named Marx)

Exactly, and that's why state-enforced Atheism never lasts very long.

So, pacifism is part of the religion of the Buddhists and the Christian Quakers, the christian Amish, and other religions.
This startes again the discsion again of the different forms of a religion. Does the religious civic represent the interpretation for the religion (sekt forming) or the way a Civ handles religion(s) in the borders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacifism#Pacifism_and_religion

 

[SadoMacho]

What would you make the effects of the civic pacifism?
extra gold for units is not enough to give a true pacifist religion.
+100% warw.
other idea?
We could bring it back, but I would rather see a pagan civic then.

EDIT : does anyone use the pacifism civic as it is now?

 

[Phallus]

Extra support costs or war weariness would both work. Support costs may ultimately lead you to disband units, after all.

Edit: I occasionally use it.

 

[SadoMacho]

So:
Religion

4. pacifism +100% Warw.; 1 /mil. unit
tech : philosophy upkeep : low?

and something positive?
I used +100% for free speech

 

[Phallus]

Low upkeep if you're using support costs, but I don't know what the benefits could be.

 

[kairob]

How about +1 happyness for every x number of the civ being at peace with everyone else? if this is possible to code, as we could then change x untill we think its balanced and would reprisent the happyness you get by not being scared of having your head blown off

 

[TheGreatOne]

what if civics could be automaticly changed under certain conditions. You would not be able to switch to Atheism on your own unless you are in authoritarian civics but your nation would automaticly swithch under certain conditions if you have a democratic govenment. If you were in a long and bloody war then you could automaticly switch to pacifism to represent the parliement and your people voting against war.

 

[SadoMacho]

I have been thinking about stuff like that, but it would be hard to cade I think.
I would like to see when a nation has Hinuism as state religion, they are forced to have caste system. And I think confusuanism has the same thing to, but I'm not sure.

 

[SadoMacho]

about pacifism
+100% Warw.; 1 /mil. unit; +2 from priests +1 from non state religion

about representation : add draft (forgot about that)

about industrialism : add hurry with gold (yep, forgot that one too)

about mercantilism : give village and town extra hammer?

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

I don't agree with the last "Social" civic. I'm not entirely sure what you're going for, but it's probably not Socialism (which is effectively represented by the State Property "Economic" civic).

Edit: Never mind, I didn't notice Page 2.

 

[SadoMacho]

I don't agree with the last "Social" civic. I'm not entirely sure what you're going for, but it's probably not Socialism (which is effectively represented by the State Property "Economic" civic).

Socialism is also social Democracy.
there is the soviet model with socialism and state property and the North Europian model with socialism and free market opposed to the USA and English model with liberalism and free market.

 

[kairob]

I really like these ideas by the way guys, I hope some are implimented...