Annihilation and Reputation

[The Judge]

My question is -if you wipe out an AI civ does this effect your reputation with other AI civs more than if you simply started a war against them?

The reason I ask is that recently I had a game where I was the Sumerians and I was going for a space race victory. I had been peaceful from the off and had done well, I was leading in tech and had rights of passage with all other civs and had been trading techs and luxuries all the time.
As the game went on I signed mutual protection pacts with two of my neighbours -the Persians and the Indians (who I traded with the most) to protect my investments. Unfortunately when I discovered Space Flight I had no aluminium resources at all and so could not build the Apollo Program. The only aluminium nearby was in Chinese territory. I had built around 25x tanks and 15x infantry for protection and so I started a war with China and the Persians and Indians followed me in. I won the war with ease and got my aluminium, however I was playing with cultural conversions on and, not wanting to lose any of my new cities, I hunted down the last Chinese city (which was on a remote island) and conquered it. I then went on to win a space race victory.

Upon starting the war quite a few civs approached me saying they did not want to extend the Right of Passage agreement -which I understood as some trust had been lost. However after destroying the last Chinese city my allies (who had been to war alongside me) also wanted to cancel the ROP! When I inadvertently strayed into Indian territory with a worker the Indians told me to leave and when I suggested a ROP agreement they said "we know what you did to China" even though they too had conquered some chinese territory which led me to wonder whether this could be because I wiped them out the Chinese........what do you think?

 

[Bartleby]

Did you have an ongoing deal with China when you declared war on them? Or did you declare war on them via a "leave or declare" situation?

I think that destroying a the target of a military alliance is OK in reputation terms, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Spoonwood]

Exterminating another tribe does not cause a reputation hit. Breaking an RoP or trade deal does cause a reputation hit.

 

[The Judge]

Did you have an ongoing deal with China when you declared war on them? Or did you declare war on them via a "leave or declare" situation?

I think that destroying a the target of a military alliance is OK in reputation terms, but I'm not 100% sure.

No deal at all just a peace treaty and to start the war I simply launched an unprovoked invasion lol.

I have noticed the same thing on conquest games in the past where I have had just the default peace treaties with all but after wiping one civ out other AI civs refer to it as a reason not to trust me. However I am not sure whether it is because I started a war or because I ground a civ to dust.

 

[Bartleby]

For a long time, the accepted wisdom was that if you "sneak attack" an AI, in other words move in and attack on the same turn,* then you violate an "implied RoP" and your rep is ruined. More recently it's been shown that you can still make RoP if you do this. Possibly there's another circumstance that causes this kind of action to break your RoP rep. Can you give more details as to exactly what the unprovoked invasion involved?



*edit: more specifically, if when the declaration is made you have one or more units in their territory, that's a violation of an implied RoP.

 

[Tone]

Exterminating another tribe does not cause a reputation hit. Breaking an RoP or trade deal does cause a reputation hit.

What happens if you have an alliance where you have included the gift of a resource to your ally and then the civ you are allied against is KO'd. Don't you then suffer a rep hit due to a broken trade due to an extermination?

 

[rysingsun]

What happens if you have an alliance where you have included the gift of a resource to your ally and then the civ you are allied against is KO'd. Don't you then suffer a rep hit due to a broken trade due to an extermination?

i believe this leads to a trading rep hit, meaning that the ai won't accept gpt anymore. i don't think it causes a rop rep hit.

my guess, to the op, is that on the turn you did your first attack, thus declaring war, you started with units already in enemy territory. i know there is a big controversy on this site about what constitutes a rop violation, and i don't particularly understand it. to be absolutely safe i recommend to declare war by entering the diplomacy screen and selecting the menu item while you still have no units in enemy territory, rather than just bounding in with your units.

 

[The Judge]

my guess, to the op, is that on the turn you did your first attack, thus declaring war, you started with units already in enemy territory. i know there is a big controversy on this site about what constitutes a rop violation, and i don't particularly understand it. to be absolutely safe i recommend to declare war by entering the diplomacy screen and selecting the menu item while you still have no units in enemy territory, rather than just bounding in with your units.

Yeah thats right, I sent in the troops and refused to leave. Your explaination makes perfect sense -thanks bro.