Annoying CtD Problem

[Sarisin]

I just reinstalled 22 and 75% chance starting a new game: custom 8 random civs plus myself random it will ctd after hitting create, I was using a fractal map. I had one game start on the 4th try, but after about 80 turns CTD.

As far as I am concerned this game is unplayable as downloaded, is there a patch I am missing?

This was my experience as well. I also use Random to select civs for both myself and the AI.

After much trial and error, I guess I finally hit on 10 civs (Large Fantasy-Realm map) that are OK as my other variables are the same. I am about 300 turns into an Epic speed game and no CTDs yet.

I hope the patch makes a difference in eliminating these CTDs.

For what it is worth, Webrider, if you have time, keep trying as you may get lucky as I did. The modmod is great fun when you can get going on a game.

 

[lordrune]

I've upgraded my OS from 32-bit Vista to Windows 7 64-bit (now that its come out retail) and I'm no longer getting the crash during the 'create new game' process.

This did involve a reinstall of BTS, but I believe this to be coincidental.

Its not the first game I've had run better under W7 and I don't think it'll be the last.

 

[Lark]

Nine CtDs and one WfC, after trying Play Now (from Vanilla, since Play Now crashes in FF+), with various maps of size Small and Tiny. Then I tried three Sabathiels on a Tiny map and finally got it to let me start, but I don't want to play that. I'll keep trying, since now I know it can work. Has anyone IDed the particular leader or trait or civ or whatever it is that makes this happen?
.
.
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Update: I went through and started games with all leaders specified - every single leader, eventually - and nary a crash. (BTW, Ethne's scout was that red orb.)
I started games with Random Evil Leaders and Random Good Leaders - no crashes.
I started games with Random Neutral or Random leaders and got a crash every time.

I hope someone else with the CtD problem will try this (setting all the leaders) and let us know if this is a workaround 'til they figure it out.

 

[Valkrionn]

Not really, no. The issue is that with some people, it crashes constantly... With others, it doesn't crash at all.

I'm REALLY hoping that the new patch will clear up these issues... Should be out this week.

 

[2Hydroclopse]

Hm, if it has been isolated to the neutral leaders, would that include Minister Koun? I wonder what would happen if a civ-less leader was selected to be on a map, perhaps a CtD. That wouldn't explain why some are immune though.

Edit: Whoa, I may have found what is causing delayed CtD, I used the setting of restrict random leader, and made every civ human only or locked; after starting a game with myself as a Capria and an AI as random, I discover --upon entering WB-- that a civ exists called Random Good Leader. That might be bad, I don't see any units for this leader and I will play a few turns to see if anything happens.

Edit2: A conquest victory apparently, perhaps this is just an oddity and the cause of nothing. <- Not thread relevant.

Edit3: Perhaps it is just luck, but I haven't yet CtD'd since I re-enabled the leaders --and have doviello as human only--. I have not encountered CtD within the last 8 games now.
Note: In these tests, I'm only testing the map generation initialization phase for CtDs.

Edit4: I have now restored random settings to normal and am still without CtD for the moment.

Tentative Theory:Those who have not ever altered their restrict random settings will CtD. Although, If I remember, a friend who just started playing hasn't CtD'd yet, so perhaps there is another factor at work(vista?).

To test:
-I will uninstall RifE and reinstall and try a few games without touching the restrict random option, and play several games.
---Result of Personal Test: Negative, CtD's continued after altering rr settings once the game was reinstalled.

-Others --who are having CtD at Init-- should try altering their restrict random option, and play several games.
-If this is indeed a solution, then the correlation between the members of the affected group should be isolated/found.
^-Nothing conclusive found.

Ps:Yay for RifE! --In regards to new awesome name and new forum location--

 

[Kyligula]

All right, I'm a social-phobic lurker, first time poster, bla bla bla, but I felt compelled to chime in as I'd been having the same problem. I apologize in advance if impending advice is hilariously wrong/doesn't work/has already been mentioned elsewhere/turns your computer into a seagull. Also, just to prepare you, I ramble.

I got the newest version of RifE today (shiny new name!), and like the other posters here, kept crashing on map generation. A guy named Cyther mentioned in the bug thread that the leader Ophelia was causing him to CtD. On a whim, I spent way too much time testing things because I really wanted this mod to work. Also, I'm obsessive. I won't bore with the gory specifics, but it does seem that whenever Ophelia and "random" get together the engine risks having a total hissy-fit meltdown.

Cyther also mentioned that the apparent problem involved an "iUnique tag" and posted a big blob of code from what appears to be the civ chooser, um, thing. He said he deleted stuff and it stopped his crashes, but I hate deleting things I only sort of understand, so I went looking elsewhere.

From stumbling around in XML files, it looks like Ophelia and her Ophelia2 sister are the only ones to have an "iUnique" anything. Setting those to 0 seemed to stop the crashing.

I continued rummaging and, in the end, opted to leave her LeaderHeadInfo alone and just set all her LeaderAvailability tags to 0 instead. Obviously, this option prevents poor Ophelia from being a leader for anyone. Since I don't know what that iUnique bit is supposed to do -- I'm guessing it's trying to ensure that the Bannor/Dural/Sheaim Ophelia and the Scions Ophelia2 don't both show up in the same game? Maybe? Am I at least close? -- that seemed the best temporary answer.

Fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc., but I generated roughly 40 maps after that, all random everything, with absolutely no problems. Undoing the XML change but still using the same settings results in immediate and consistent crashes. We'll see. If I do encounter anything after this, I'll edit.

(For the non-techsavvy, if there are any: head to your Civ4/Bts/Mods/FF+/Assets/XML/Civilizations folder, then open CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml with notepad and run a find for Ophelia. Change the 1 in the LeaderAvailability tag next to that. There should be four in all. If you still want to play with her, then you can instead open CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml in the same folder, run a search for iUnique and mark them both as 0)

 

[Valkrionn]

Welcome to the forums!

Well... It appears that you and Cyther have found the cause of the crashes, then.

You're spot on about what the iUnique tag does. It's meant to prevent two (or more) leaders from being randomly selected in the same game.

Honestly, seeing as some people did NOT have the crashes, while others consistently did, I think there's something in the iUnique tag that overloads slower computers. Until I figure out exactly what (will talk to Opera about it... She designed it originally), I'll remove the tag.

I can always just switch Ophelia's traits via python if she's leading the Scions... It's not displayed quite as nicely, but since there's now a pedia page for traits I can link to her Scion traits in her background text.


PS: Blame Opera! She wrote the iUnique tag, so the crashes are all her fault!

..
......
.......... We all love you Opera. We forgive you.

 

[Opera]

I think I had some issues with it. Fortunately, I'm not using it... But I don't know what's causing the CtD... I'm not sure but maybe changing this:

                                                if (GC.getLeaderHeadInfo(GC.getInitCore().getLeader((PlayerTypes)jJ)).getUnique() > 0)
                                                {
                                                    if (GC.getLeaderHeadInfo(GC.getInitCore().getLeader((PlayerTypes)jJ)).getUnique() == GC.getLeaderHeadInfo((LeaderHeadTypes)iLeader).getUnique())
                                                    {
                                                        iValue -= 50000;
                                                    }
                                                }

To:

                                                if (GC.getLeaderHeadInfo([b](LeaderHeadTypes)[/b]GC.getInitCore().getLeader((PlayerTypes)jJ)).getUnique() > 0)
                                                {
                                                    if (GC.getLeaderHeadInfo([B](LeaderHeadTypes)[/B]GC.getInitCore().getLeader((PlayerTypes)jJ)).getUnique() == GC.getLeaderHeadInfo((LeaderHeadTypes)iLeader).getUnique())
                                                    {
                                                        iValue -= 50000;
                                                    }
                                                }

 

[Sarisin]

(For the non-techsavvy, if there are any: head to your Civ4/Bts/Mods/FF+/Assets/XML/Civilizations folder, then open CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml with notepad and run a find for Ophelia. Change the 1 in the LeaderAvailability tag next to that. There should be four in all. If you still want to play with her, then you can instead open CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml in the same folder, run a search for iUnique and mark them both as 0)

From a non-techsavvy, thank you for nailing this down, Kyligula.

As I mentioned in post #17 of this thread I thought it might be one particular leader or civ causing the CTDs, but I couldn't figure out how to determine which one short of trying all the possibilities, which you were kind enough to do.

It is interesting that this bothered some like you and I while others seemed to have no CTDs like ours.

Anyway, I'm going in and making your suggested change now - wish me luck.

 

[Treason]

All right, I'm a social-phobic lurker, first time poster, bla bla bla, but I felt compelled to chime in as I'd been having the same problem. I apologize in advance if impending advice is hilariously wrong/doesn't work/has already been mentioned elsewhere/turns your computer into a seagull. Also, just to prepare you, I ramble.

I got the newest version of RifE today (shiny new name!), and like the other posters here, kept crashing on map generation. A guy named Cyther mentioned in the bug thread that the leader Ophelia was causing him to CtD. On a whim, I spent way too much time testing things because I really wanted this mod to work. Also, I'm obsessive. I won't bore with the gory specifics, but it does seem that whenever Ophelia and "random" get together the engine risks having a total hissy-fit meltdown.

Cyther also mentioned that the apparent problem involved an "iUnique tag" and posted a big blob of code from what appears to be the civ chooser, um, thing. He said he deleted stuff and it stopped his crashes, but I hate deleting things I only sort of understand, so I went looking elsewhere.

From stumbling around in XML files, it looks like Ophelia and her Ophelia2 sister are the only ones to have an "iUnique" anything. Setting those to 0 seemed to stop the crashing.

I continued rummaging and, in the end, opted to leave her LeaderHeadInfo alone and just set all her LeaderAvailability tags to 0 instead. Obviously, this option prevents poor Ophelia from being a leader for anyone. Since I don't know what that iUnique bit is supposed to do -- I'm guessing it's trying to ensure that the Bannor/Dural/Sheaim Ophelia and the Scions Ophelia2 don't both show up in the same game? Maybe? Am I at least close? -- that seemed the best temporary answer.

Fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc., but I generated roughly 40 maps after that, all random everything, with absolutely no problems. Undoing the XML change but still using the same settings results in immediate and consistent crashes. We'll see. If I do encounter anything after this, I'll edit.

(For the non-techsavvy, if there are any: head to your Civ4/Bts/Mods/FF+/Assets/XML/Civilizations folder, then open CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml with notepad and run a find for Ophelia. Change the 1 in the LeaderAvailability tag next to that. There should be four in all. If you still want to play with her, then you can instead open CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml in the same folder, run a search for iUnique and mark them both as 0)

Thanks for the suggestion!

As someone who has never modded, though, perhaps you can offer up another bit of advice? Every time I attempt to do as you've suggested (in word pad) my computer tells me that I can't save what I just modified, saying "access denied" for some odd reason. When I attempt to mod it in notepad, it just tells me that my pathing is screwed up and won't try to save to the location (despite having said that there is already said file name in said location and if I'd like to save over it).

I'm stumped!

 

[cyther]

I don't think it is linked to the speed of my computer because I have a very powerful computer right now. It may be linked to Vista though as XP computers don't get many errors that Vista has.

Opera's code looks like it would fix the problem though.

 

[Valkrionn]

Cyther, you're one of the ones who was suffering crashes, yes?

Would you mind testing a DLL I send you with the revised code? See if it works before committing it.

 

[Valkrionn]

Here's a DLL with Opera's fix in it... Please, if you are having crashes try this out, see if it solves them. Of course, this requires both Ophelia's to be enabled, and set to the same iUnique value... Should be '1'.

Place it in the Assets folder.

 

[lordrune]

Earlier post was a false alarm - I was still getting the crashes, thought W7 had solved the issue but evidently not.
Its an awkward thing to diagnose though. You might get three starts in a row where it works, then three failures in a row (sometimes more - I think there's some kind of 'seed' that doesn't get reset if it crashes too early).

Anyhow - I applied Kyligula's workaround to disable Ophelia, and that has *definitely* worked for me.
I did try putting the new DLL in my Assets folder and re-enabling Ophelia, but the new DLL doesn't fix the problem for me, so I've gone back to playing with her disabled.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm... I'll remove the iUnique tag from Ophelia, and apply the traits via python. Not difficult, just not displayed as well.

 

[cyther]

The new DLL creates a crash log that points to a different thing than iUnique but it still is caused by iUnique. The first time I saw the crash log pointed to the random leader generator

 

[Valkrionn]

Good to know... I'll definitely remove the tag from the leaders.

 

[Treason]

I used the new DLL. So far, no difficulties.

 

[Valkrionn]

So did thomas.berubeg (got him to try it on #erebus), but I think it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Kyligula]

Valk: I tried using that DLL, and the maps all explode into flam--I mean, they crash.

Oddly enough, I also couldn't get the Restrict Random popup to, well, pop up using your DLL. Clicking that option resulted in the box being checked, but no window. Going back to the old DLL brought the popup back while retaining the crashes. Not sure what's happening there.

I've done a few more map tests (I'm obsessive and I can't stand unsolved problems). Here are the total results, just in case something is actually useful:

- RandomRestrict locking the Opheliacivs for all, human, AI or any combination thereof did not prevent crashing.
- Manually selecting civs and/or leaders for all players (including both Ophelias in one game): 20/20 successful map generations.
--- crashes occurred in all five additional attempts when even one civ was left as random
--- crashes also occurred in five more attempts when one or both versions of Ophelia were selected, with additional civs set to random
- Limiting leaders to "random good/evil": 20/20 clean maps
- Setting both Ophelia iUnique tags or all her LeaderAvailability tags to 0: 30/30 clean maps for each.
- Setting Ophelia2's LeaderAvailability to 0 while leaving Ophelia's three tags at 1, and vice versa failed in all attempts.
- Setting Ophelia's iUnique tag to 0 while leaving Ophelia2's tag at 1, and vice versa failed in all attempts.
- Setting Ophelia2's single LeaderAvailability tags to 0 while also setting Ophelia's (not Ophelia2's) iUnique tag to 0, or vice versa, worked in all attempts (including selecting the remaining Ophelia as a leader). This is a neat alternative that will still let you have a possible Ophelia for the Bannor, Sheaim or Dural while preventing her from spawning twice (see below).

- Really interesting bit: default XMLs, four players each set to random leader of one of Ophelia's possible civs (Bannor, Dural, Sheaim and Scions): 15/15 clean maps, 8 of which had Ophelia leading one of the four civs, and 2 of which had BOTH Ophelias (one Scions, one Bannor/Dural/Sheaim). This was with iUnique tags as 1. <Stuff, more stuff, and some other stuff went here, even though I don't know what I'm talking about. Continue!>

As with Cyther, I'm not so sure it's PC-related -- I actually just upgraded to my beast/baby a month ago. It might be OS-related, though, somehow. I'm running on Vista 64bit.

Thanks for the suggestion!

As someone who has never modded, though, perhaps you can offer up another bit of advice? Every time I attempt to do as you've suggested (in word pad) my computer tells me that I can't save what I just modified, saying "access denied" for some odd reason. When I attempt to mod it in notepad, it just tells me that my pathing is screwed up and won't try to save to the location (despite having said that there is already said file name in said location and if I'd like to save over it).

I'm stumped!

Hmm, that's tricksy.

What happens when you try renaming that file in the folder, making a copy, deleting, moving it, etc. -- does it tell you the same thing? If it WILL allow you to alter it:

Try renaming the file to something like "oldversion", then open it with notepad, make the changes, and try to save as the desired name (CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml or CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml, including the .xml so it saves as that file type). If it's still telling you something about the pathing (path/folder destination denied?), try saving it to your desktop instead, then manually copy-pasting to the right folder. It's not very elegant, and it completely ignores the mystery source of the problem, but it should work.

If it won't let you do anything to it, and you still can't save to that folder, then the only real thing I can think of to ask is if you're running on Vista. The standard stuff would follow: are you the administrator, do you still have the helpful/irritating User Account Control active, is the folder/file set to allow writing, etc.? If you're not running on Vista...then...I'm stumped too, haha. I usually overcome all such problems by scouring the internet, exhausting all suggested solutions and then just getting increasingly frustrated until I dissolve into hysterics. It seems to work!