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Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by mjs0, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. Nicolas10

    Nicolas10 Warlord

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    This is kind of too wide-ranging a question to really debate much in a thread, but I see "honor" as kind of a society trait... and I do think it's linked to strong military resistance.

    The Spartans were indeed highly trained, but they had to believe in something to maintain the training and sacrifice; as a people they were often exceedingly polite, and looked at Athens and other Greeks as "less honorable" then themselves.

    Another example of "honor," in a kind of twisted form, is the tribal honor systems we see in areas of the Middle East. Afghanistan for instance, has been notoriously hard to capture from Alexander the Great until the present, and they often have seriously strict ideals of "honor," including revenge killings and the like.

    Anyway, no need go off on a tangent; I suppose I just have an easier time rationalizing this gameplay mechanism then Ahriman. Though, I can see his confusion with the joining policies and the creation of such bonus-inducing social policies.

    *And thanks for pointing out my typo in the previous post.
     
  2. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

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    Are you here really discussing names?
    We don't really now anything about the mechanics behind these names.
    You're just discussing hot air here.

    Autocracy could mean nearly everything which as to do with empire control, organization, and so on, liberty could mean nearly everything about human rights and social politics, you're just not creative enough here.
     
  3. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    The US, like most large modern states, NOT a democracy. It is a representative government, not democratic.

    The people do not have legislative/executive or judicial power... only Senators/Representatives+Presidents Supreme Justices that.

    People DO get to vote on who the Presidents/Senators/Representatives will be, but people give up substantial power to those people when they do that.

    People also don't get to choose who the Supreme Justices will be, they just get to choose who will choose the justices.

    using this definition
    The President of the US has more power over the average US citizen than any one person in Athens did.

    The US is more of an autocracy than Athens is because the President of the US has Fewer/Smaller limits on Effective use his power than the nonexistent 'President' of Athens did. (part of that is because of a more efficient Bureaucracy, the othe part is because he actually exists)

    And this is a 'good' thing from the point of view of having some of the benefits of an absolute monarch
    ..clear chain of command in certain cases
    ..a rallying point/figurehead

    The US does have broader suffrage though (greater equality) and greater protection for free speech (greater liberty) these are only possible since the US is Less democratic than Athens is.



    I agree, the point I was trying to make is to look at the mechanics....and use imagination to determine how that society would actually get those benefits.
     
  4. Aramel

    Aramel Warlord

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    I agree with most of the rest of what you said, but this "not a democracy" thing is silly. When just about everyone refers to modern countries like the US as democracies, including US presidents, it's rather pointless to try and define the term to mean something else. The US isn't a direct democracy, and everything you've said applies to that, but it is a type of democracy, at least in the way that term is conceived of today. Didn't mean to hijack the thread or anything, just wanted to point that out.

    Anyway, I wonder why they didn't name Autocracy something less specific like "Authority". It seems like that would have taken care of most of the objections to it here.
     
  5. Thyrwyn

    Thyrwyn Guardian at the Gate

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    This. Progressing through the various Policy Trees could represent becoming more effective, not becoming more extreme.

    A society that values liberty & autocracy? a variation on a constitutional monarchy, maybe? It is the very nature of government & society to manage and define the relationships between various ideals/values.

    Many ideals and values require compromise even with themselves, liberty/freedom being the most obvious: no one can have complete freedom if exercising that freedom is allowed to interfere with anyone else's freedom.

    [Silly extremism alert] One could even argue, that in a society devoted to liberty (freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice) everyone would pursue absolute authority (autocracy), since only by doing so could you have absolute liberty [end] :mischief:
     
  6. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    That actually sounds like a good suggestion
     
  7. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    I like the idea of needing to bring the spaceship parts togeather.
     

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