[GS] Another Venice/Papal/Italy Civ idea (this one is good this time, I promise!)

[AvianBritish]

I feel I have just had a Eureka! (or an Inspiration!) for another dual leader Italian Civ headed by Enrico Dandolo and the Pope for a Venice and Papal States Civ with a unique gameplay twist playing on existing gameplay mechanics!

Civ: Italy (Italian Wars)

• Cannot train settlers.
• Any foreign city that leaves its civilization due to loss of Loyalty and is receiving the most Loyalty pressure from Italy instantly joins it's empire, instead of becoming a Free City (just like Eleanor).
• Gains the suzerain bonus of all of it's allies. Allies gain the direct suzerain bonuses of Italy.

Leader: Enrico Dandolo (Serenìsima Repùblica Vèneta)

• Gets a free settler in a city that complete's it's first Commerical Hub or Harbour (only 1 settler per city).
• Markets and Lighthouses both provide +1 trade route capacity.
• Trade routes to foeign cities gain +4 gold to the trade route and to the target city's owner. +4 gold to trade routes if the target city's owner is at war. The target city loses -2 loyalty per turn for each trade route from Italy to it. This becomes -4 loyalty in a golden age.

Leader: Pope Julius II (Stato Pontificio)

• Gets a free settler in a city that complete's it's first Holy Site.
• Religious Pressure from the Pope's cities provide equal loyalty pressure to foeign cities of the same religion.
• Killing units military and condeming heretic grant faith equal to the unit's strength.
• +5% Faith per city state Italy has suzerainity over.

Unique Infustructure: Grand Piazza

• Replaces the Government Plaza.
• Provides 2 Govenor Titles when constructed
• Provides +1 adjacency bonus to all adjacent district.
• 20% discount on all Gold and Faith purchases in this city.

Unique Unit: Crusader

• Replaces the Courser
• +8 Combat Strength against players following other religions.
• 40 Combat Strength. (4 less then the courser it replaces)
• Can be purchased cheaply with faith or gold.

What do you think? Both are based around explanding through loaylty, but they can get their own settlers limitedly to settle their own cities (Such as Trogir which Venice settled in modern day Croatia).

But, both I think put an intresting twist on the loyalty mechanic like Eleanor, Venice gets it's double trade routes with the effort put in. And the Papal States get a strong faith/religious play style that dosen't require them to have their own religion (they can adopt another's to get their Civ's bonuses still).

I'm not too wise on Italian militery history but both Venice and the Pope were heavily involved with the crusades so I've decided to give them the "Cusader" unique unit; making it possible to buy cheaply but not be as good as the regular unit without the religious differences (because to my knowalge; all of the crusades failed for the most part?) but still worth getting them for their value.

People want a Government Plaza unique district and Italy has always been that seems the best for it; so I've added my own twist to it with the only difference being an addtional governor title and cheaper purchasing in it.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

1. No settler is a no go for me. Italians will have a purely hard time working with JUST ONE city to make more units to take other cities.
Of course you based Italy of Civ5 Venice. which they can't train more settlers but can buy city states outright with Great Merchants !!! in truth Venice ruled MANY cities.
And even worse. player must hoard their golds to buy tiles ASAP before rivals won a land grab. having significantly fewer cities means that Italian city must occupy maximum grounds to get the most out of it.
give'em settlers as per normal rule please.
2. If player is Pope Iulius II AND Trajan is also in game, what will his seat be?
3. Crusaders being their UU? not appealin' to me much. but faith and gold and not training. it's okay.
Also are crusaders light cavalry? actually they were a full army comprised of different units wielding different weaponry.
4. Don't forget Milan, Florence and Piedmonte-Savoy too, these were Italian superpowers too.

 

[AvianBritish]

1. No settler is a no go for me. Italians will have a purely hard time working with JUST ONE city to make more units to take other cities.
Of course you based Italy of Civ5 Venice. which they can't train more settlers but can buy city states outright with Great Merchants !!! in truth Venice ruled MANY cities.
And even worse. player must hoard their golds to buy tiles ASAP before rivals won a land grab. having significantly fewer cities means that Italian city must occupy maximum grounds to get the most out of it.
give'em settlers as per normal rule please.
2. If player is Pope Iulius II AND Trajan is also in game, what will his seat be?
3. Crusaders being their UU? not appealin' to me much. but faith and gold and not training. it's okay.
Also are crusaders light cavalry? actually they were a full army comprised of different units wielding different weaponry.
4. Don't forget Milan, Florence and Piedmonte-Savoy too, these were Italian superpowers too.

In the leaders desciption I did detail that you do get settlers from completing the holyside or commerical-hub/harbour in each city; meaning that you can have an infinate amount of cities as Italy, but you only get settlers from building that respective district. (I did also mention that I am aware of Venice settling it's own cities such as Trogir; and I think they also settled Split and Dubrovnik too?)

As for "who gets Rome" when that's easily sorted if you say that Pope Julius II gets "Vatican City" as the name of his capital. Yes I know it's was always part of Rome up until WW2 (I think...) when it was then made a seprate country/city/city-state, but it's the only way you would get the Vatican in the game whether it's a Civ or a City State.

I'm not that good with Italian militery history, so this could be anything; I only suggested that the "Crusader" could be a unit they use as it will fit in with both the the Vatican and Venice's goals to do or profit from the crusades; but if anyone else could think of a better unit to represent Italy, then sure. But the only other thing I could think of is the Swiss Guard; but then all of Europe used these and even then, they are Swiss rather then Italian; it's like Civ5 Denmark and it's "Norwegin Ski Infantry".

Of Course I'm aware of Milan and Florence (didn't know of PS though), and to add to the list there is also Turin, Genoa, Naples and Sardinia; but focusing on the idea of the resources of Faith and Gold, Vatican and Venice (or Genoa) fit the bill as resouces that can be gained and expended and used as an intresting mechanic and unique playstyle. If I apply a Cultural Florence loyalty version of my idea then it would be just be Eleanor's ability; and if I applied a similar idea to Milan or Turin in terms of Production, then it's just going to be a more potent "Bread and Circuses" ability.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condottieri
(Basically captains that lead mercenary companies)

I think the Condottieri would be a better representation for an Italian UU and could still work with the bonuses that you gave the Crusader. Maybe instead of more combat strength against Civs with other religions you could get combat strength for each suzerain bonus you have?

 

[AvianBritish]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condottieri
(Basically captains that lead mercenary companies)

I think the Condottieri would be a better representation for an Italian UU and could still work with the bonuses that you gave the Crusader. Maybe instead of more combat strength against Civs with other religions you could get combat strength for each suzerain bonus you have?

Those sound great now reading through them on the Wiki!

It's one of those annoying things I couldn't google; I was looking up evyerthing for Italian military personel from history and all the different search terms; but it seems like it's something you have to know about in order to look it up.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condottieri
(Basically captains that lead mercenary companies)

I think the Condottieri would be a better representation for an Italian UU and could still work with the bonuses that you gave the Crusader. Maybe instead of more combat strength against Civs with other religions you could get combat strength for each suzerain bonus you have?

What should they be? Melee or Anti cav and which units should they replace?
I'd go for anticav and it should replace pikemen

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

What should they be? Melee or Anti cav and which units should they replace?
I'd go for anticav and it should replace pikemen

Most of soldiers who fought under them were heavy armored cavalry, so it should probably replace the Knight or not replace anything like the Winged Hussars.