Ansar02 - Global Warming
- Thread starter Ansar
- Start date
Phaedo
Emperor
lurker's comment: I'm no really an expert either, but the goal is to get 2 pop of growth and 30 shields at the same time. A 4-turn factory needs 5 extra fpt (with a gran) and the city would need to make 30 shields as well. There are a number of ways to set up those circumstances
oogieboogie
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 28
As I put forward in my first post about the starts, I think that our continent will be crowded and relatively inhospitable. One of the many challenges when playing the Americans at higher difficulty levels is that their first research choice is a bit... crummy.
We have Pottery. No one will pay us much of anything for it but it is obviously the critical first tech in many games -- granaries. If our civ didn't have it, this would be our choice -- 100% rush to Pottery. We also have Masonry. This tech will be our best trade bait early, depending on our neighbors.
BW-IW is great in that we need to know where the iron is, in order to make sure that we have it in place for making knights in the early MA. I think that the likelihood that we can put together any type of Swordsman rush early is slim in this setup. Therefore, the argument could be made that simply trading for BW is satisfactory, and then re-evaluating the need to grab IW quick.
CB is well, not particularly useful. We won't be building temples in the AA when going for a Conquest win, so it won't be a great use.
I would put forward the suggestion that for a first choice we consider either WC for some archers or the Wheel to spot the Horsies. Any AA war we fight, would need either archers and/or horsemen, so that might be the way to go. Esp. considering raging barbs.
Another possibility would be a minimum research or zero research track until we open up a second level tech like Writing - explore, grab goody huts or trade for WC, the Wheel, HR, BW-IW and especially Alphabet... then go all out for the Republic slingshot Writ-CoL-Philo-Rep.
There's a good chance our neighbors will already know any tech we choose straight out, and since we don't need any of them (unlike Pot) why waste the $$ until we can invest it wisely in something like IW or Writ? There is certainly a reasonable chance that in the first 25 or so turns we could trade for a tech...which would be faster than we would be able to research it. A gamble, but a calculated one.
Just some musings.
On the other topic, if you would like I can post something detailed about the settler factory options in our start... No sense me writing out things everyone knows though if thats the case.
We have Pottery. No one will pay us much of anything for it but it is obviously the critical first tech in many games -- granaries. If our civ didn't have it, this would be our choice -- 100% rush to Pottery. We also have Masonry. This tech will be our best trade bait early, depending on our neighbors.
BW-IW is great in that we need to know where the iron is, in order to make sure that we have it in place for making knights in the early MA. I think that the likelihood that we can put together any type of Swordsman rush early is slim in this setup. Therefore, the argument could be made that simply trading for BW is satisfactory, and then re-evaluating the need to grab IW quick.
CB is well, not particularly useful. We won't be building temples in the AA when going for a Conquest win, so it won't be a great use.
I would put forward the suggestion that for a first choice we consider either WC for some archers or the Wheel to spot the Horsies. Any AA war we fight, would need either archers and/or horsemen, so that might be the way to go. Esp. considering raging barbs.
Another possibility would be a minimum research or zero research track until we open up a second level tech like Writing - explore, grab goody huts or trade for WC, the Wheel, HR, BW-IW and especially Alphabet... then go all out for the Republic slingshot Writ-CoL-Philo-Rep.
There's a good chance our neighbors will already know any tech we choose straight out, and since we don't need any of them (unlike Pot) why waste the $$ until we can invest it wisely in something like IW or Writ? There is certainly a reasonable chance that in the first 25 or so turns we could trade for a tech...which would be faster than we would be able to research it. A gamble, but a calculated one.
Just some musings.
On the other topic, if you would like I can post something detailed about the settler factory options in our start... No sense me writing out things everyone knows though if thats the case.
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
I have no idea how you all saw the cows hidden in the fog for those starts. If they're there, then the obvious choice would be 3. I'm fine with that.
The Wheel is good. Because odds are Japan (why do they still retain the Wheel and Ceremonial Burial for their first techs, I will never know [as the Aztecs are no longer also Mil and Rel]) is not in the game. We'll probably be able to trade for some or all of BW, CB, Alpha, and WC. The one's we don't get can be quickly researched after we get some contacts. But that assumes we get some; hence, we need scouts.
An early granary would be nice with the improvements. But would it be nice to have two workers early on? Or two scouts? Scout, Worker, Granary sounds like a nice plan to me.
The Wheel is good. Because odds are Japan (why do they still retain the Wheel and Ceremonial Burial for their first techs, I will never know [as the Aztecs are no longer also Mil and Rel]) is not in the game. We'll probably be able to trade for some or all of BW, CB, Alpha, and WC. The one's we don't get can be quickly researched after we get some contacts. But that assumes we get some; hence, we need scouts.
An early granary would be nice with the improvements. But would it be nice to have two workers early on? Or two scouts? Scout, Worker, Granary sounds like a nice plan to me.
oogieboogie
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 28
I am a professional fog gazer. 
oogieboogie
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 28
Might want to think about Scout-Worker-Warrior-Granary because of the raging barbs... it would be a shame to lose our workers so early.
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Raging barbs? Ugh. And on emperor too. Now I wish we were the Inca, their scouts don't have such problems! Not to mention that the AI will have larger militaries because of these barbarians. Otherwise though, it sounds fine.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
lurker's comment:
Are the other victory conditions enabled?
Aside from America being proved right about global warming (at least for game purposes; I'm a Yank and I remember that back in the 1970's the big concern was about global cooling; so I am very skeptical about today's claims of global warming), do you have any other special rules for this game? That is, if you reserach the right tech, must you build recycling plants and other envirnomentally friendly city improvements?
In your write up, you said America had a grudge. Does that enter into diplomacy in any way? No tech trading, no MAs, no ROPs, etc?
I don't mean to be nit-picking. I think you have a great premise for a game, or perhaps even a mod. I just see some areas that are not clear to me.
Large, cool and old. That is certainly not the norm of games here (standard and huge are more common). Glad you're breaking out of the mold!The Settings:
Map Size: Large.
Climate: Arid and Cool.
Elevation: 5 Billion years old.
Difficulty Level: Emperor. (Thanks Phaedo!
Civilization: America.
Civ3 Version: C3C/Conquests.
Proposed Victory Condition: Conquest.
Are the other victory conditions enabled?
Aside from America being proved right about global warming (at least for game purposes; I'm a Yank and I remember that back in the 1970's the big concern was about global cooling; so I am very skeptical about today's claims of global warming), do you have any other special rules for this game? That is, if you reserach the right tech, must you build recycling plants and other envirnomentally friendly city improvements?
In your write up, you said America had a grudge. Does that enter into diplomacy in any way? No tech trading, no MAs, no ROPs, etc?
I don't mean to be nit-picking. I think you have a great premise for a game, or perhaps even a mod. I just see some areas that are not clear to me.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Yeah, Arid and Cool aren't exactly the type of conditions that produce pretty maps.Large, cool and old. That is certainly not the norm of games here (standard and huge are more common). Glad you're breaking out of the mold!
Yes, but I don't think we'll be heading towards the Modern Age (maybe not even the Industrial Age!
) Nope. We are just enraged at the world for not believing our claims about Global Warming being inevitable.
Oh dear! I did forget to mention these extra rules...
Since we are mad at the world, we have some grudges:
- We do not do trade with anyone. We do not make any Right of Passages or work together with any AI, because we can do it by ourselves.
- We do not declare war on an opponent as soon as we meet them, therefore it is not AW (incase anyone was wondering).
- We cannot establish embassies.
Oh, dont worry! I should be thanking you!
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Seeing as I forgot to mention about not trading, I'll wait one more day to play. 
I think Warrior Code should be researched first. Archers, like oogieboogie said, will help us in the early game (especially with barbarians - at this stage, killing barbarians with a warrior isn't a breeze, they are actually like AI warriors.)
I think Warrior Code should be researched first. Archers, like oogieboogie said, will help us in the early game (especially with barbarians - at this stage, killing barbarians with a warrior isn't a breeze, they are actually like AI warriors.)
Phaedo
Emperor
lurker's comment: Now those new rules make it REALLY interesting. Nice one Ansar
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Well, it's just a different spin on things.
We are alone in this dark, cold, and arid new world.
oogieboogie
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 28
Can we take techs/etc when the AI begs us for peace?
No trading.... I agree all out for WC. Probably followed by The Wheel and Horsemen to make a decent army.
side note...if there's one more BG in the fog or under a forest I believe it's 4-turn Warrior-Settler combo factory time!
No trading.... I agree all out for WC. Probably followed by The Wheel and Horsemen to make a decent army.
side note...if there's one more BG in the fog or under a forest I believe it's 4-turn Warrior-Settler combo factory time!
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Well, unless we have to make peace we won't be getting any techs from them. We want to kill them with our technology, no foreign science entering our knowledge banks.
Ok, with some luck, our scout will pop some goody huts with techs though I doubt it. (Oh well, at least we can't get barbs out of huts.
) Well, I'm almost positive there is a BG in Washington's radius, so speak up and lets hear how the set up goes!
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Grr. If we can't trade, then we may as well take the longer paths first and 4 turn research the rest. Alphabet, writing. And then faster research on BW, WC, The Wheel, IW, CB, Mysticism. But WC first is still fine to me. We'll actually probably always be behind the AI (how sad).
And 4 turn warrior settlers? Does that mean that we have a town with 3 production for warriors and Washington as a 4 turn factory or does it mean we simply have uber production with 10 spt+ at size 5? Actually, you know what? If we have 3 BG, we will. Goody. (Unfortunately, it'll be hard to get enough money to upgrade these warriors after we build them....)
So, anyone up for exploiting barbarian camps? All we have to do is sequester an area from AI settlers and then move our units out after destroying the village. Sounds useful, no? Maybe 25 g every 5-10 turns.
And 4 turn warrior settlers? Does that mean that we have a town with 3 production for warriors and Washington as a 4 turn factory or does it mean we simply have uber production with 10 spt+ at size 5? Actually, you know what? If we have 3 BG, we will. Goody. (Unfortunately, it'll be hard to get enough money to upgrade these warriors after we build them....)
So, anyone up for exploiting barbarian camps? All we have to do is sequester an area from AI settlers and then move our units out after destroying the village. Sounds useful, no? Maybe 25 g every 5-10 turns.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Well, remember, we can still pointy stick the AI. Like, if we don't have enough troops to kill it, we can retreat until we get enough troops again and we finish them off.
Warrior - Settler factory, I believe, is when you have enough shields so that you can squeeze in a warrior between producing settlers. (Never hurts to have an escort - especially when there are barbarians running amok.)
We'll have to use archers, because I know for a fact attacking with warriors is as hopeful as crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
I'll play tomorrow since I still have to do some homework and study for a quiz.
Btw, CommandoBob, did you have any interest in joining our team?
Btw, CommandoBob, did you have any interest in joining our team?
oogieboogie
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 28
The prerequisites (in our start):
-a granary
-starting pop of 5
-5fpt surplus
-10spt at pop 5
So...
1) from the capital we will have 1spt
2) from one irrigated cow we will have 1spt and a 4fpt surplus
...giving 2spt and a 4fpt surplus at pop 1
3) from one mined cow we will have 2spt and a 1fpt surplus
4) from each of 2 mined bonus grasslands we will have 2spt
...giving 8spt and a 5fpt surplus at pop 4
That leaves the 5th citizen who needs a 2 food/2 shield tile to work -- one more mined bonus grassland being the simplest route. If a forest chop reveals one or there is one under the fog in Washington's full radius, we're all set. With some careful MM we could even avoid the 4 shield waste by letting a nearby city use a single mined BG for turns 2 and 3 while Washington uses a 0spt river grassland.
The 6th citizen would work a roaded river grassland -- any 0spt/2fpt tile will do. No sense mining the tile as the shields would just be wasted.
Here's the breakdown:
Turn 1
pop 5, store 5 food, build Warrior in Washington
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG
Turn 2
pop grows to 6, 12 shields to Settler construction (10 from citizens 1-5, 2 from the forest that the 6th citizen will be put on in the IBT)
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG (see notes on MM to avoid waste below)
unmined regular G (shifted from forest)
Turn 3
pop 6, store 5 food, 22 shields to Settler construction (10 from citizens 1-6)
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG (see notes on MM to avoid waste below)
unmined regular G
Turn 4
pop grow to 7 but drops to 5 as we pop our Settler (34 total shields - 10 from citizens 1-6, 2 from the spare forest the 7th citizen will work on the IBT)
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG
rinse and repeat, sending each new Settler out with its own escort/MP - raging barbs -- bah!
Note that there are 4 wasted shields - 34 instead of 30 to the Settler. If we MM carefully, we could put a nearby city's citizen on a mined BG for 2 turns and put the corresponding Washington citizen on an unmined G for those same turns. The 4 shields would go to the neighboring city...we would need to make sure that our forest stays available though b/c we would have to get those 4 shield on the IBTs in that case.
-a granary
-starting pop of 5
-5fpt surplus
-10spt at pop 5
So...
1) from the capital we will have 1spt
2) from one irrigated cow we will have 1spt and a 4fpt surplus
...giving 2spt and a 4fpt surplus at pop 1
3) from one mined cow we will have 2spt and a 1fpt surplus
4) from each of 2 mined bonus grasslands we will have 2spt
...giving 8spt and a 5fpt surplus at pop 4
That leaves the 5th citizen who needs a 2 food/2 shield tile to work -- one more mined bonus grassland being the simplest route. If a forest chop reveals one or there is one under the fog in Washington's full radius, we're all set. With some careful MM we could even avoid the 4 shield waste by letting a nearby city use a single mined BG for turns 2 and 3 while Washington uses a 0spt river grassland.
The 6th citizen would work a roaded river grassland -- any 0spt/2fpt tile will do. No sense mining the tile as the shields would just be wasted.
Here's the breakdown:
Turn 1
pop 5, store 5 food, build Warrior in Washington
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG
Turn 2
pop grows to 6, 12 shields to Settler construction (10 from citizens 1-5, 2 from the forest that the 6th citizen will be put on in the IBT)
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG (see notes on MM to avoid waste below)
unmined regular G (shifted from forest)
Turn 3
pop 6, store 5 food, 22 shields to Settler construction (10 from citizens 1-6)
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG (see notes on MM to avoid waste below)
unmined regular G
Turn 4
pop grow to 7 but drops to 5 as we pop our Settler (34 total shields - 10 from citizens 1-6, 2 from the spare forest the 7th citizen will work on the IBT)
----work the following tiles:
irrigated cow
mined cow
mined BG
mined BG
mined BG
rinse and repeat, sending each new Settler out with its own escort/MP - raging barbs -- bah!
Note that there are 4 wasted shields - 34 instead of 30 to the Settler. If we MM carefully, we could put a nearby city's citizen on a mined BG for 2 turns and put the corresponding Washington citizen on an unmined G for those same turns. The 4 shields would go to the neighboring city...we would need to make sure that our forest stays available though b/c we would have to get those 4 shield on the IBTs in that case.
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