Ansar02 - Global Warming

[Tribute]

Actually, 4000 BC should be Turn 0 (pretend it's the inherited turn). Since it's really 541 turns in the game, to keep the dates even, the next person may as well play to the endturn of 2550 BC.

 

[Ansar]

Roster:
oogieboogie - Up!
d. highland - On Deck!
Tribute
Ansar - Just Played.

 

[Synobun]

*gulp* Almost my turn...

 

[oogieboogie]

I have the save. Took a quick look around and snapped an image. See the pretty pic I attached.

It has a very preliminary dot map just to get the discussion started.

I'm writing out some thoughts on further plans for everyone to comment on, I'll post those shortly.

pretty pic

 

[Synobun]

Ah, those city spots look good, I await the plans!

 

[Ansar]

I have the save. Took a quick look around and snapped an image. See the pretty pic I attached.

It has a very preliminary dot map just to get the discussion started.

I'm writing out some thoughts on further plans for everyone to comment on, I'll post those shortly.

pretty pic

What program do you use to make such nice pictures?

Don't mean to bag on your dotmap, but are you familiar with CxxC city placing? It is much better than CxxxC placing because you can reach cities in one turn while in your dotmap, you would need two turns to reach cities. Also, the towns are never going to use all those tiles since they can't grow past size 12. (I like the way you think though. If this was a builder game, I would say your dotmap was perfect. )

I'll try to come up with a dotmap and see what you guys think.

 

[oogieboogie]

First off... can I speak to the neighbors? I haven't yet because I wasn't sure if that was OK. Mainly I'm curious if Rome and/or Germany have their second cities down yet. Whether they do or do not will give us an idea of what lies to the S in the fog.

Second... where abouts did you run into the English? Somewhere by the Vikings or the Aztecs I'm hoping.

Some initial impressions:
1) God I hate the Germans. Oh well, it could be worse... it could be Shaka next door. I figure the Germans will start trying to pick a fight pretty early if they're in a good position. However, given that they irrigated the flood plain already, I'm thinking they may be a bit strapped for shields.

2) Portugal. Hahahahahahahaha. One of few civs I would rate as worse than our own. That meat head has already wasted a settler grabbing some bananas and wine. Oporto (and for that matter the city hiding up in the jungle by the silks) is never going to amount to much of anything. Portugal absolutely wasted that Settler. Thank you silly AI. BTW, I'm willing to bet he tries to grab the second bananas I circled if he lives long enough.

3) Did I mention I hate the Germans? Still smarting from a GOTM waaaaaay back in the day (in the teens I think) when I first moved up to Monarch or Regent or some such and got beaten down by some German archers.

4) Vikings have the choke point. Good, maybe the Aztecs will pick on them instead of us.

5) MUST KILL ROME. Murphy's Law tells me that they have iron in their hills and that Caesar wants to unleash the legions on us. Probably as part of some larger German conspiracy against us.

Some more serious thoughts to follow.............

 

[oogieboogie]

There is a method behind the madness of the dots... still typing it though.

Photoshop for the pretty pics.

 

[oogieboogie]

As indicated in my first impressions post my biggest worry is to the S, Rome and Germany. Portugal, while it already has 2 cities down, appears to have failed to establish them in anything resembling productive locations. Even Lisbon appears pretty shabby.

The area marked by the halo and the 1 on the map, is for the near term, a large wasteland that will not amount to anything without significant labor. It is shield poor and (mostly) food poor. Let the Portugese have it... for now. It wll not allow them to build up much of a military. Now certainly, there may be some nice tiles N beyond the silks... but they are starting to get a long ways from Lisbon. Also, since we've already met so many civs, I'm thinking that's a dead end -- unless that's where the English are hiding.

Area 2, is our green paradise. I see 2 more BG's, a river, and room to grow near our capital. I just plopped down a couple pink dots in the fog for effect. Without seeing the underlying terrain, they're just eye candy.

Area 3 is the river along whose axis I would propose we push at our aggressive southern neighbors early. If Rome has a second city down, it is to the S. If they don't, my guess is that Rome itself is coastal and they will be forced to push towards us up the river or to head toward the choke point. Caesar may be looking directly at that cow to his north for his next city.

Germany, like Rome, may or may not have a second city up. If they don't I think that supports the guess that there is little to the S. I think they will expand toward Rome first, and then to the N second if that's the case. Civs like to butt heads.

So this leads to my assumptions (which can be reasonably confirmed in the trade screen)...
1) Rome has no cities down,
2) Germany has no cities down,
3) Therefore they are both likely to head our way searching for living space.

Best way to stop them is a city that grabs the S cow before Rome does. I went back and forth on the exact spot, wanting fresh water, the cow and the dyes. I thought about the forest N of the dot for CxxC placement, but initially chose the plains for a few reasons:
1) It's closer to Rome. It's presence will likely keep Rome off the upper part of the river. If we settle in the trees, Rome will build on the river.
2) It gains 7 useful tiles. We won't get near pop 12 because of all the crappy deserts around the area.
3) It sets up the orange dot...which pulls the E cow into our territory and makes use of some of the spare tiles we grabbed in place of its deserts, while staying on the river. I think all of the bad terrain makes CxxC placement a bit rough...too many cities fighting over too few good tiles. We have to do something to pull that E cow in and short of having a distant city to the E, I don't see any better spots.

My main thinking is to sacrifice one movement turn, to force Rome to play the game our way. WE can make a beeline straight to Rome, knocking them out of the game and blocking the apparent choke point (number 4). We can then dispose of Germany and Portugal and then swing 180 to wipe out the rest of our continent.

If we hit at Portugal first, we risk having one or both of the two aggressive militaristic civs S of us expand in close to Washington and hit us from behind. Portugal poses no such threat with its city placement.

I of course welcome everyones input and criticisms.

The third dot, the yellow one...is just a guess. We need to see more to our NE before figuring that side out.

 

[oogieboogie]

Don't anyone worry... I may be new but I'm not too stupid. I won't play until everyones had a chance to have their say and we've reached a consensus. I have no intention of screwing up my first SG with idiocy.

 

[Synobun]

I'm not a civ expert, not even as good as you, so you can't expect much "criticism" from me.

 

[Ansar]

Don't anyone worry... I may be new but I'm not too stupid. I won't play until everyones had a chance to have their say and we've reached a consensus. I have no intention of screwing up my first SG with idiocy.

No you're not. By throwing these ideas onto the discussion, we can tell you what's the right thing to do and what should you not do. That's part of learning: identifying the mistakes.

 

[Ansar]

My dotmap is split into two parts:

Part One: America - Rome

Settling red dot and yellow dot allows us a direct route to Rome and we even get to steal one of Rome's tile. Also, the two towns can share the cow between each other if necessary. The direct route to Rome is show as the blue arrow.

Part Two: America - Fog

I'd recommend to settle light green dot first because it would connect the towns near Rome to our core even further and it opens up new tiles. It can probably be a nice powerhouse too. Pink dot is to snatch some more terrain and bust some fog. Plus, it looks like it could have some nice terrain.

 

[Synobun]

If you get pink dot first, and then settle green dot, you will get an extra BG if that means anything.

 

[Ansar]

If you get pink dot first, and then settle green dot, you will get an extra BG if that means anything.

Yeah, I pointed that out in the dotmap, but I forgot to mention. Thanks for the reminder.

Btw, are you learning anything d.highland? If you have any questions, just ask.

 

[oogieboogie]

Will the culture of the yellow dot be strong enough to grab that tile? I've never studied the mechanics of how that is determined. I'm sure we would lose it after Rome's cultural expansion, but would we get it to begin with?

Of course, who wants Rome to last until it hits 100 culture.

 

[Tribute]

Yes. It will. Cultural borders work such that the city tile will always be the settling city's. Civ III prevents you from settling CC, so CXC is the closest possible. With that formation, the city with the most culture will get the overlapping X position. When in CXXC, cities will get their immediate 9 surrounding tiles no matter what, even if the other city has already culturally expanded.

Basically, these are the possible disputed territory's with everything above the listed item going to the thing above.
City core tile (if this were possible) goes to the one with more culture.
1st ring tiles: (the 8 surrounding) go to the one with more culture.
2nd ring tiles: (the 12 surrounding the 8) go to the one with more culture. If it is a 1st ring tile being disputed with a 2nd ring, then the 1st ring tile's city will get the tile.
3rd ring tiles (the 16 surrounding the 12) go to the one with more culture. If it is disputed with a 2nd, 1st, or core tile, then it goes to that city's owner instead.

And so on.

Since this is a 2nd ring tile against our 1st ring tile, we get it.

I hope that was clear enough.

Also, I would do light green then red tiles. It's also time to set up our settler factory, I think. Maybe we ought to make a granary instead of a settler. (and a barracks if you want vet warriors!)

 

[Synobun]

Yeah, I pointed that out in the dotmap, but I forgot to mention. Thanks for the reminder.

Btw, are you learning anything d.highland? If you have any questions, just ask.

Yep, i'm learning. I'll catch on pretty quickly though.

 

[oogieboogie]

Washington:
-MM to always get 5fpt avg. to maximize growth
-Settler then Granary, to set up the Settler factory
I think we can sneak out one more Settler and then chop a couple forests to get the Granary out quickly...enabling us to have the Settler factory up and running around 2100 BC.

Boston:
-Warrior then Worker
We are way short of workers. If we don't get a few more soon, we are really wasting the important early potential of New York and Washington.

New York
-Rax then Archers

Workers:
Finish mining the BG then chop a couple forests for the Granary... get the cow mined, etc. to set up the Settler factory.

Next city:
I favor the southern sites. I would much rather we have the cow than Rome. So I was thinking the red dot in Ansar's dot map is the location to choose.

Science:
BW-IW at max rate without any prolonged fiscal deficit.

Let me know what everyone thinks so we can make changes and I can move along with my turn. BTW, I am playing until the end of the 2550 turn correct? or the 2590 one? And do I have to refuse all tribute demands or can I pay off the neighbors for now?

 

[Ansar]

Washington:
-MM to always get 5fpt avg. to maximize growth
-Settler then Granary, to set up the Settler factory
I think we can sneak out one more Settler and then chop a couple forests to get the Granary out quickly...enabling us to have the Settler factory up and running around 2100 BC.

Sounds good.

Boston:
-Warrior then Worker
We are way short of workers. If we don't get a few more soon, we are really wasting the important early potential of New York and Washington.

Sounds good to me. We might want to build another warrior after the worker (or maybe a spearman?) for defense.

New York
-Rax then Archers

I think a worker should be built after the rax to keep the population down and give the worker some time to work the BGs.

Workers:
Finish mining the BG then chop a couple forests for the Granary... get the cow mined, etc. to set up the Settler factory.

Yep. I'd say one forest chop is good enough for the granary.

Next city:
I favor the southern sites. I would much rather we have the cow than Rome. So I was thinking the red dot in Ansar's dot map is the location to choose

.
I was thinking about that too. Cows are nice.

Science:
BW-IW at max rate without any prolonged fiscal deficit.

We want to see iron!

Let me know what everyone thinks so we can make changes and I can move along with my turn. BTW, I am playing until the end of the 2550 turn correct? or the 2590 one? And do I have to refuse all tribute demands or can I pay off the neighbors for now?

Looks like things are in order. I think Tribute said 2550 so the turns are in order.