Anti-piracy question

[Dida]

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm the guy at work who takes all the new machines we get, and each and every one of them (a couple of hundred in the past couple years) has had a CD/DVD drive. I can't see a laptop manufacturer not putting a cd/dvd drive in the system. It'd be really hard to distribute software without one.

The CD check is indeed a pain, but until a better method of validation comes a long, we're stuck with it.

I have a Thinkpad x60s, it doesn't have an internal CD drive, however the drive is available on the docking station. Now, no one would want to carry their docking station with them on the road, so they can play civ4/civ3. I am naturally compelled to seek my own solution.

 

[Mango]

I agree it does hurt the legitamate buyers. CD/DVDs are quite easily scratched if not taken proper care of, and although we all try to be as careful with our $50 discs as possible things tend to happen. There's nothing worse than paying for a game and not being able to use it even though you have it installed on your computer already. It happened to me with Sim City 3000 before I knew about no-cd patches. Just a few small scratches and that was the end of that game. Pissed me off so much too.

And pirates will always find a way around it anyway. You can't even impliment security checks secure enough to stop someone from playing a multiplayer game with a pirated version anymore.

edit: As for better validation methods, I can't say there is a good way to stop single player games since requiring online authenticity is just another step towards communism (I jest, but why should people be required to have the internet to play a game?). However in multiplayer the server should check for a validation code that must be entered when the game is setup originally. This code can only be used once and cannot be activated until the game is scanned at a register. This is how theft is prevented in large stores with items such as prepaid phones. Complicated sure, and you'd still run the risk of someone's "one-time-use" code being stolen between the time they purchase the item and enter the code, but I am not here to offer a perfect solution.

 

[gunkulator]

No, the ONE counter is to update often. Might be harder for single player games, but for MP ones a regular stream of updates will kill the pirates. That's how simple it is.

And it wouldn't even be hard/expensive for them to do a weekly update. They won't have to update a lot of things, just change the file so that all pirates need to find a new update... which would make them bored and either buy the game or else stop playing.

Not everyone has internet connectivity where they play civ. I also don't like to see applications accessing the internet for no good reason. I typically deny them access in ZoneAlarm.

Weekly updates would be a huge pain in the backside, especially for people with infrequent or slow internet connections. Much more of a burden than CD checking IMO.

Cd-checks haven't stopped a single pirate - ever. It takes a week then there's a patch for no-cd and then it's ok again.

This is untrue. Not everyone has the skills or time to bother with no-cd cracks. CD checks are like locking the doors to your car. It won't stop a determined thief but it will stop the average Joe looking for a kick.

 

[Dida]

No CD Cracks are so easy to find, one search in google and you have it. I would say, vast majority of people, especially gamers, can find ways around it.

 

[UknowsI]

I don't think that's entirely accurate. I'm the guy at work who takes all the new machines we get, and each and every one of them (a couple of hundred in the past couple years) has had a CD/DVD drive. I can't see a laptop manufacturer not putting a cd/dvd drive in the system. It'd be really hard to distribute software without one.

The CD check is indeed a pain, but until a better method of validation comes a long, we're stuck with it.

As mentioned earlier in the thread the Thinkpad x60s doesn't have an internal CD drive. Dells X serie doesn't have internal CD drives and the D420 doesn't either (not sure if it's the whole D4XX serie or not). I'm sure most a lot of other manufacturers also ship laptops without it, but I'm not too familiar with other manufacturers. Companies usually don't buy these kind of computers since they usually cost more compared to the specs you get, but they are very popular amoung students and more and more people find out how usefull it is to have computers <1.5 kg which is pretty much impossible to get with an internal CD drive

 

[Turner]

Every laptop I've seen has had a cd/dvd drive. Obviously, if you have a Thinkpad x60 you would know. (I haven't seen that model...)

Anyways, more than not I've seen have cd/dvd drives. YMMV, of course.

 

[Raio]

Hi to all you guys

My ideas...

1 - When a gamemaker sells a game, it is wrong ask to have a CDplayer or internet connection to play the game. The gamemaker sells a product and it should include everything you need to use it (I am excluding the install requests).

2 - It happened to me before, damage the cd reader with constant cd checkings when playing civ (since civII). I think it is often usual damage the reader that the readed.

3 - We should define (or try to) piracy. Piracy is use a product without pay for it. Nothing more and nothing less. If I buy a game, I don't think use a no-patch cd is piracy. And yes, you don't need to be an expert to find and to learn how to use it.

4 - I was surprise when some guys discuss about the absence of CD reader in laptops, once CIV4 is unplayable in the almost all laptops...

Regards:

Raio

 

[Samson]

3 - We should define (or try to) piracy. Piracy is use a product without pay for it. Nothing more and nothing less. If I buy a game, I don't think use a no-patch cd is piracy. And yes, you don't need to be an expert to find and to learn how to use it.

I agree with what you are saying. A point you may not be aware of is that in the US it is specifically illegal to do something to get round copy protection methods, even if what you are doing is not otherwise illegal. Something to do with the digital millenium rights legislation (ICBW).

I think it is a total travesty, but if they want to ellect people who do this sort of thing they only have themselves to blame

 

[mike p]

I was ticked off when I found out that you had to switch disks to go between Warlords and regular Civ 4. If you haven't bought Warlords yet, I'd suggest direct2drive - buy it and download it, and there's no physical disk required. Of course my friend who tried this didn't get any of the docs for the game, but the Civilopedia is pretty good anyway.

 

[wiser3]

CD-checks is why i got a desktop with two DVD drives, a DVD/CD burner and two CD drives. When i bought the machine i got some new drives and installed the drives from my old machine.

Half the time i still have to switch a disk because my kids swapped a CD to one of their games.

Unfortunatly my laptop only has one DVD drive.

 

[Greybriar]

All anti-piracy measures are annoying to some degree or another. For example, due to StarForce copy protection on one of my games the copy protection method used by another of my games wouldn't allow it to play. Galactic Civilizations II has an original idea, but I had a problem getting the extras that came with my Collector's Edition. It makes me reminisce about the games that came on floppy disks which only required a word lookup in the documentation to install and play the game with nothing further ever needed.

CD Key copy protection seems to be about the easiest pill for me to swallow. I dislike having to have the CD in the drive, but it beats some of the other methods. And I have never been bothered enough by having to insert the CD into the drive to resort to downloading and installing an unauthorized patch.

There is one recommendation that StarForce made which I agree with: Once a game is no longer profitable, a patch should be released that would remove all copy protection.

 

[Serenya]

CD Checks are why I use Game Drive. I haven't copied a game from someone else in more then 20 years, and have no intention of starting now, but I'm really not going to keep track of the CDs for every game I've bought in the last five years. I bought Gal Civ in large measure to reward them for not having CD Checks because I find them so bloody irritating.

Oh, and it isn't always the CD that stops working, sometimes it is the drive. My husband installed a game with that Russian company's copy protection (Starforce?) and soon after his DvD drive (brand new computer mind you) stopped working. Makes me really not inclined to buy new games as often as I used to.

 

[Lars_Domus]

My husband installed a game with that Russian company's copy protection (Starforce?) and soon after his DvD drive (brand new computer mind you) stopped working. Makes me really not inclined to buy new games as often as I used to.

Yes, that would be the one, but it's not a copy protection, it's pure malware. And it's not a company, it's a bunch of pirates. It's a well documented story how they put out a link to download a pirated version of GalCiv II on their site. Arrrrgh! Those StarForce "%&#164;(/%"(s get me so worked up

At least Firaxis don't bundle their releases with malware.

 

[QwertyKey]

My laptop doesn't even have an internal CD-rom. More and more laptops comes without an internal CD-rom these days, which I hope makes the manufactureres drop the CD-check soon. It becomes almost mandatory to install no-CD patches, but I would prefer to be able to not use them.

I've never heard of a laptop without a CD-Drive. I'll take your word that they exist, but they certinly aren't popular.

Starforce is absolute malware, I would advise strongly against buying games that use Starforce. Though there is a way to get an optical drive working again, it's very diffcult, espicially when you don't know what you are doing. Usaually you can check reviews at websites that sell the games such as amazon.com. If a game comes with Starforce, you'll see it very soon after the game comes out.

I think the CD check requirment is reasonable, it may be annoying but it's really not unreasonable for them to require.

 

[Mango]

I think if you are smart enough to be able to download Civ 4 then you should be smart enough to download a no-CD patch too. Also, from my understanding the people who pirate these things tend to include everything bundled together. Even your average Joe Schmoe could probably figure it out. And if not, maybe he does give up and he doesn't succeed at pirating Civ 4. The chances of him turning around and spending $50 on the game because he failed at stealing it probably aren't that high to begin with.

In fact, I would venture to say that of the people who either pirate or attempt to pirate games, a higher percentage of those people who succeed eventually buy the game than of those who fail. Why? Because of the prevelation of the try-first/buy-later society that has developed since the advent of file-sharing in the late-90's.

Bit of a tangent there but the point is the CD check only gets in the way of two people: idiots who are trying to download Civ 4 on Limewire and legit owners, and in the end Firaxis is succeeding in stopping a very small percentage of people from downloading the game while pissing off a very high percentage of its consumer base.

 

[auldian]

I'm just supporting the original topic. I'd like to see 2K patch the game in the future so that either the vanilla or the Warlords disc will permit play. After it's been out a while and "cooled" sales-wise, patch it to do away with the disc check altogether.
I will add I still have old games I play that require me to pop out my CIV disc and insert their's. It's very scary.

 

[Chieftess]

I've never heard of a laptop without a CD-Drive. I'll take your word that they exist, but they certinly aren't popular.

Starforce is absolute malware, I would advise strongly against buying games that use Starforce. Though there is a way to get an optical drive working again, it's very diffcult, espicially when you don't know what you are doing. Usaually you can check reviews at websites that sell the games such as amazon.com. If a game comes with Starforce, you'll see it very soon after the game comes out.

I think the CD check requirment is reasonable, it may be annoying but it's really not unreasonable for them to require.

Older laptops don't have CD-ROM drives -- you need an external one. Granted, I can see why some companies might not allow CD-ROM drives or floppy drives (security, discouraging playing games at work, all updates, etc. are done through the network Intranet, or shared CD-ROM drive, etc.). Still, why would one want to play a game during work hours? (Where I work, we have a lawyer who works on the same floor, and she's probably aching for an ethics violation to litigate. ).

 

[codeaaron]

aside from violating the shrink-wrap license, which im assuming explicity prohibits that kind of activity (though i haven't read one in years), does anyone know which law, exactly, using a no-cd violates? is it considered breaking an encryption scheme under the DMCA?

im trying very hard not to get into a 20-page long discussion of congression jurisdiction, but im having some trouble coming up with a way that they could criminalize that kind of activity other than some kind of copyright violation.

 

[Jimdigriz]

I tried to re-install my Civ 1 from CD onto a new computer about 8 years ago, the CD hadn't been used for a while as I was playing Civ II, It did not work, the surface of the CD had blown, it seemed to have bubbles between the layers, and was completely unreadable.

Im pretty sure Civ 1 is available to download legally? I might be wrong but it could be on this (legal!) site - Moderator Action: Removed
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

If I am wrong there are other classics of the Civ 1 era to download free of charge there such as Empire (quite close to Civ in a way) and UFO Enemy Unknown etc

Im not an employee by the way!

I would like a (legal) way of disabling the cd check just to get round swapping vanilla and warlords discs all the time and stopping my CD drive starting up (it makes a bit of a racket!)

 

[Turner]

Abandonware is a fiction. There is no such thing. Either a game has been released into public domain (Civ1 hasn't) or you need to find a place to legally purchase it.

You can pick up Civ1 from www.cdaccess.com, they have it for about $11.00 with shipping.