Any word (even rumors) of a 64 bit build in distant future?

Larsenex

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I know that we can MUCH more memory in a 64 bit enviroment. With that said, wouldnt we really want our game witha 64 bit build so we can run BIG (see massive) maps, more units and better performance?

I am not a programmer, however it does seem that Win 7 64 is far more robust than XP 32bit. Would a 64 bit version be faster with multi core systems?

Also how hard is it to write a game like this for 64 vrs 32 bit versions?

So my question is..

Is there even a hint, rumor, out right lie, that a 64 bit version is going to show?
 
Also how hard is it to write a game like this for 64 vrs 32 bit versions?

Should be exactly the same code for the most part. The only difference would be if they were using the fact that integers were 32 bits long to do something in their code.
 
I hope they do something like Stardock are doing with Elemental with its multi-threaded AI. The AI uses each thread available on your CPU to calculate its turn while you're doing yours. With an i7 and its 8 threads the turns would be instantaneous!
 
Let's hope so...I purchased additional RAM just for Civ V, most of which currently isn't being utilized. :rolleyes:
 
Ok, let me comment on this from a programmer's point of view and give a few insights:

- To make sure your memory is fully used it is important to have a 64bit operating system, if you have more than 3GB. That's correct. Most 32bit systems cannot use more memory because some of the rest is used for adressing, cannot be adressed because you only have 32bit memory adresses and other reasons.

- It is however totally irrelevant whether the application you're running is 32bit or 64bit, unless that application needs to use more than 3GB exclusively (which is highly unlikely in Civ5's case). The operating system will assign Civ5 as much memory as it needs and will rewrite the memory adresses (nowadays NO application can directly access memory), so the OS is the important part, not the game.

- 64bit does NOT equal a faster game which utilizes memory better. Quite the opposite actually. Consider memory pointers. For those of you who don't know anything about programming, a memory pointer is a variable which stores a memory adress. This is used to point to several locations in memory where the real data is stored. Now.. a 32bit application has pointers of size 32bit. That's logical since the pointer needs to store a 32bit memory adress. now.. if you turn that application into a 64bit application you effectively have DOUBLED ALL POINTER SIZES. It's also likely that you have doubled the size of several other numerical variables. This is a big deal and can incrase the memory footprint of this application by A LOT. This could potentially cause a massive slowdown on systems which do not have much memory.

- 64bit Civ does NOT mean it can handle bigger maps more easily. A map is just a datastructure, and those structures usually contain mostly pointers. So if you turn Civ5 64bit you effectively have decreased its ability to handle larger maps, because you have increased the size of those datastructures. I don't have Civ5, but the demo roughly uses 650-700 MB of memory. So even if you think Civ5 needs to be able to address more memory.. what's the point? It's not even close to using more than 3GB. You're absolutely fine with 32bit. Going to 64bit will just increase the memory needed, not decrease it.

- If you want Civ5 to handle memory better, get the programmers to optimize their datastructures and algorithms. That's where the problems lie, not in 32bit/64bit.

- And finally, the usage of multicore has absolutely nothing to do with 32bit/64bit. Both variants can utilize as many cores as they want. First of all there's no system with more than 2^32 processors out there, and secondly the OS assigns the processors to the application, not the other way around, so it again doesn't matter which variant you run.


To summarize: There are certain advantages running on 64bit, but having a 64bit OS is WAY more important than having 32bit applications. As long as memory footprint is something that matters, it is worth sticking with the 32bit version of that application.
 
Agree with much of what Keldorkatan wrote, but also would like to add that the chances of Firaxis, or any other games company, releasing a 64-bit version of an already released 32-bit game are close to 0%. :D
 
I can't recall where I read it, but didn't someone from Fraxis/2K confirm that a 64-bit version would be made in the future?

I don't really see what the benefits would be. The memory usage of the loaded XML files will grow a lot already. I just googled a bit and the estimates are that XML files will need 50 to 60% more memory when loaded in a 64bit application.

So if you plan on using a 64bit Civ5 one day I really recommend having at least 4GB of RAM. Not because Civ5 will need it all, but there's a lot of other stuff going on and you need reserves. If you are having performance problems already I really recommend to avoid that and stick with the 32bit version.
 
Doing a 64 bit version of anything means completely rewriting all the code for said program with drastically different code. Its nowhere near the same code as it would be now. Its just in general a pain in the ass to do and rarely is it taken advantage of even when written.
 
Doing a 64 bit version of anything means completely rewriting all the code for said program with drastically different code. Its nowhere near the same code as it would be now. Its just in general a pain in the ass to do and rarely is it taken advantage of even when written.

It's probably not as bad as that. Unless you do a lot of low level memory operations it's not THAT intensive. but yes, it is still a lot of work. So I really doubt Firaxis will do this. it would be a sh**load of work with no real benefit. Especially since the current 32bit code obviously is far from working perfectly, including memory handling.
 
I understand and thanks Keld! Since we can have loads and loads of ram in a 64 bit enviroment wouldnt the fact that the programs have a larger footprint be irrelevant? Lets say for a moment that I have 12 gigs of Triple channel and I am running a six core monster at say 4gigs speed. Could you simply load the entire game of Civ 5 into ram and get a faster game? If the entire game was written AND optimized for 64bit and say needed at most 6 gigs of ram to run it, If you had the hardware would it not run faster than it does now?

I find it hard to believe that things are slower in 64bit, why then even change to it at all? Ram is and will be cheaper so we could see machines with 24, 64 or even 100's of gigs of ram. Would'nt our games run MUCH faster then they are now?

thanks again!
 
Keldor, I am not a coder or programer. Can you easily explain why we want a 64 bit envirorment?

(assume we have a great computing enviroment for it...Loads of ram and 6gig processors (if there were ones)
 
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