anybody interested in making F-22?

[spiky82]

since the patch is coming out pretty soon, all of us civers would soon be able to enjoy airpower at its best

a lota people feel that out of all civs, americans suck since expansionst is not always THAT good, and F-15 has a measly bonus compared to the other civs. also someppl like me were wondering what happened to the beloved stealth fighter from civ2 (the f-22). i don't know a lot about graphics, so kudos to neone who can do this (now that cool program for editing FLC is here!)...i know ur out there! respond if ur interest

 

[Mig1]

I made a mod with better/more fighters and graphics for CivII. I think I sent it to CivII heaven or some site like that (years ago).

I think I called it ATF. Anyways, what's this editor program you are talking about? I'd take a stab at it for you.

 

[akinkhoo]

Emmm....

if the USA get F22,
[stealthy, so should be great for action in enemy grounds : better offensive and range but more expensive than normal jet]

the Russians should get the Su-47
[forward sweep winger, able to win any plane in a dogfight : better defensive and cost the same as the normal jets]

o, getting carried away

 

[Scipio Africanu]

Akinkho I think you highly overestimate the Flanker. Though it can out menuever many planes the U.S.'s larger military arsenal of FaF (Fire and Forget) weapons amkes that a useless factor. The Flanker while an excellent plane which is built for cheaper then any U.S. aircraft still cannot compete with the Phoenix missle. Even with massive Chaf (counter measure for radar guided) as military doctrine requires american pilots to fire two missles on any russian aircraft MiG-29 and up including the some of hte earlier Su models.

In my opinion the Americna weapons hsould be smart bombs able to dispose of any ground unit or city improvement, but thesse should have high shield costs.

 

[depresion]

Scipio have you seen any of the footage from tests with the old SU-27 and the refit SU3-5 Vs F15 and F16 fighters, it was a clean sweep and not for the US. The Russian missile systems were far more advanced that the US equivalents in all but the farthest BVR forms.

Combined with the substantially superior battle damage sustainability of the SU aircraft I know who I'd be siding with.


The SU-27 & 35 were equipped with pilot head tracking allowing there pilots to lock on to the pilots of the US jets and launch much sooner than expected.

Not that the US military would admit to wasting billions of tax dollars.

 

[akinkhoo]

Originally posted by Scipio Africanu
Akinkho I think you highly overestimate the Flanker. Though it can out menuever many planes the U.S.'s larger military arsenal of FaF (Fire and Forget) weapons amkes that a useless factor. The Flanker while an excellent plane which is built for cheaper then any U.S. aircraft still cannot compete with the Phoenix missle. Even with massive Chaf (counter measure for radar guided) as military doctrine requires american pilots to fire two missles on any russian aircraft MiG-29 and up including the some of hte earlier Su models.

In my opinion the Americna weapons hsould be smart bombs able to dispose of any ground unit or city improvement, but thesse should have high shield costs.

Actually I was refering to the Su-47 not the Flanker Su-27......
Which is design to fight the F-22

The Su-47 1st flow in public as a prototype in 1997 under the codename S-37....
It amazed the european....
who didn't expect ANYONE to build a fully functional forward sweep wing fighter jet....

It is NOT a Flanker... it is the Golden Eagle.....
It can be build cheap because most of the parts are from older Su and MiG (which also means that old jet-fighter can be upgraded to it)..... the most important/different part it its single piece, carbon compound, forward sweep wing.....

the Su-47 is proven to have an equal range (flying) to that of the F-22
Not as stealthy but the main idea is it is cheap.... to out number....
its ability to make tight curve and the ability to perform thrust vectoring just as the F-22 do!!!

It isn't as good as the F-22, can't throw smart bombs too....
but for its LOW PRICE, it is just good value for money

EDIT : I found a picture of the Su-47. look at its wings to find out whats so special

http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/gallery/maks/gallery/su_47.shtml

 

[Noname]

I think the hardest part now is where to find the graphics for the F-22.

 

[Mig1]

The S-37 is only a technology demonstrator. It will probably never see mass production.

I would think the best thing to do when including the F-22 in Civ would be to give all Jet fighters the F-15 stats, then give the F-22 to the US.

As far as real life military aviation goes:

The AIM-9X that should deploy with the F-22 should almost be as good as the R-73 (AA-11) Archer. The AIM-120 is waaay better than the Russian R-77.

And our good friends the Isreali's have the Python 4 (certified for use on the F16, with helmet mounted off-boresite target acquisition) which is better than the AA-11 (IMHO) at shorter ranges. But the AA-11 does have much better range.

I would be interested to find out about the French MICA-IR. I don't know much about the new French missiles but they are supposed to be pretty good.

Oh, and you never see F-14's with AIM-64 pheonix missiles any more. They are just too expensive. Plus you can't hit a small evading target with one. They are too big and heavy. They were designed to hit big bombers or intecept non-evading cruise missiles.

New Sukoi fighters, and the Mig-29's could easily sweap the skies of allied fighters in close in dogfights. But the west's better avionics pretty much assure a BVR kill if the rules of engagement allow it.

Look back at Kosovo on the first night of the air war. Dutch F-16A's (MLU upgrade) bounced a Mig-29 flight with AMRAAMS using BVR shooting. I think US F-15's finished them off, but I don't remember.

My old ATF mod featured the Rafale, S-37 Berkut, Eurofighter, and F-22. Oh, and the F-23 too... just for the hell of it. It was an optional icon.

Oh, and firing two missiles at a target, that crap went oway shortly after Vietnam. It was because our early missiles were very unreliable, and would miss just becuase they were not taken care of.

Ok...

Now that I'm done with all that. I've downloaded the FLC program and will try and play around with it over the next couple days.

 

[depresion]

akinkhoo thanks for that picture, it's defenatly anupgraded SU-35 with the twin tails, canards and vectord thrust. Nice may repalace the su-35 on my what to buy when I'm as rich as bill gates list.

Mig1 If you con't mind (and are hopfuly quite good ) could you do me an SU-35 graphic?

 

[Scipio Africanu]

Hehe your basing those tests off of the BRD tests during the early 1990's? like it or not U.S. military capabilities have progressed much higher then that of a decade ago. I'm sorry for misplacing the numbers on the Russian models, I need to brush up on my Russian jet power knowledge, especially more recent versions. However if my memory serves me correctly the F-22's radar capabilities are highly enhanched giving it a maximum fire and forget range of 9 miles, the Su-47 falls short by 2 miles on this. The stealth capabilities of the F-22 are also much more solid then most other stealth planes. This is simply due to the fact that the U.S. has had much more practice in bouncing Radar waves then other nations. The F-22's bounce is probably the best in the world with the exception of the B-2 (atttributed to its Wing design). All in all the Russians can build a faster more menueverable plane for cheaper but since range and ordinence capabilities is what makes or breaks a dog fight now a days these advantages can be factored out using the right conditions and advantages of American aircraft, which is Radar and tracking capabilities. In the last 10 years the U.S. has made leaps and bounds in the missle technology which is a testement as to our thoughts of MD, which in a report in 1986 said these capabilites were impossible. What a difference a decade can make.

You could see these differences mounting simply in how we built our Nuclear Arsenals. The Russians built larger warheads with less accurate targeting mechanisms. This was due to the fact of the immense damage created from a Nuclear blast that precise targeting wasn't needed. The U.S. concentrated on better targeting with smaller warheads. This so they could avoid destroying unneeded Civilian zones while still amassing massive damage at detonation point. Later the Russians expanded with multiple warhead missle's, once again less precise but nominal in their targeting. The U.S. simply expanded our existing arsenal. After some treaties such as the ABM, START I/II, and the compromises made by the original compromises made in the regan administration Star Wars system. Through these talks the U.S. knew that Russian Ballistic missle capabilites were still ahead of us but not nearly as accurate seeing the 1986 report that tackling an ICBM in transit was impossible. It wasn't until the late 1980's that the U.S. caught up to Russia's ballistic (by ballistic I mean any missle with over 2 tons of rocket propulsion in it) capabilty through the extended military buildup during Regan and slightly extended by the Bush administration. All in all targeting has been a back burner issue for Russia, simply there to suppliment the ordinence, where as in America it has been our number one concern. Russia has its cpaabilites, its obviously still years ahead of us in intelligence and deep water vessals but in airpower, which is decide by missle guidence now a days the Russians fell just a hair behind which can decide not only a battle, but a war as well.

 

[depresion]

You are comparing the F-22 that hasn't yet entered servace yet with the SU-35 that entered servace in 1985 upgraded from the Su-27 that entered servace in 1977.


Changes from the Su-27 include a new radar, canards, more powerful engines, an enlarged and improved infrared search and track unit in front of the cockpit, an infrared missile-warning scanner on the fuselage spine and a large "spine" between the engines containing a rearward-facing air-to-air radar, allowing the use of rear-firing missiles mounted on rotating pylons that can fire missiles in either direction and two-dimensional thrust-vectoring engine nozzles.


Now the F-22 will have thrust vectoring, canards and stelth but as hase been shown with the B-2 most modern radar can see it. The B2 was detected when flying non stop from it's base to the Farnborough airshow, by both british and french civil radar. The excuse was a British Rail worth "it was raining, the stelth efect dosn't work proply in the rain yet."

 

[Scipio Africanu]

which is a testement to how much further European and Russian Stealth technology has to come. And transit has a completly different engine thrust then when a B-2, F-117, F-35, or F-22 is running on stealth mode

 

[akinkhoo]

I done the properities thingy of them

The F-22 should be given :
Type: Air Defense
Attack: 12 | Defensive: 6 | Range: 8
Bombardment: 4 | Rate : 1
Mission: Intercept, recon, bomb, re-base, smart bombs
Ability: Immobile, Stealth
Cost: 14 (Aluminum and Oil)
Tech Availablilty : Smart weapon
(USA)

The Su-47 should be given :
Type: Air Defense
Attack: 10 | Defensive: 8 | Range: 8
Bombardment: 2 | Rate : 1
Mission: Intercept, recon, bomb, re-base
Ability: Immobile
Cost: 10 (Aluminum and Oil)
Tech Availablilty : Smart weapon
(Russia, also an upgrade for jet fighters)

 

[spiky82]

hey ppl...when nobody answered anything bk for 2~3 days since i put up the thread, i promptly forgot about this....now i'm bk and

anyhow, for anyones that are interested in making f-22s, a good place to find pictures would be at the US air force home page. they have nice pics and TONS of links...

i guess this is possible for some people who have animation shop, etc. now that FLICster is available...good luck people!

 

[Mikoyan]

Su-47 vs. F-22 huh?
Well, that would be an interesting battle, would'nt it?

Su-47
Attack: 10 Defense: 8 Range: 8
Bombardment: 4(It was designed to be a fighter/bomber)
Rate: 1
Mission: Recon, Intercept, Bomb, Re-base, smart bombing (Those AG-66 missiles were'nt designed for nothing)
Cost: 10 (Aluminum and Oil)
Tech Availablilty : Smart weapon
Users: Russians, Chinese to replace the ******** stealth fighters
(Yes, it has a very low radar profile)

 

[akinkhoo]

Originally posted by Mikoyan
smart bombing (Those AG-66 missiles were'nt designed for nothing)

I didn't see the Su-47 with smart bomb because it would be
a bit too powerful for something that cost only 10 shield units.....
Besides, the russians never use that
it is too expensive to waste for them so I don't think it matters
emm.... interesting.....

BTW that's a nice picture

 

[Scipio Africanu]

Yeah the Russians past record of waste in times of excess are to high to count so now they don't have that ability, hehe. I like the picture to, shows that you can only dream it pictures cause something like that would be the day. Speed and Menueverabilty vs. Stealth and Range, wonder who would win well at least you can be happy with your pictures.

 

[Mig1]

I guess I need to download Animation studio so I can get to work on some graphics huh?

 

[Mig1]

Well... I finished my first unit. An AH-1 Cobra attack helo. Looks ok, but the combined flic file crashes the game. After I fix it, next will be the F-22.

Oh and I found my old AirWar mod art file. I almost always save copied of my mod work-in-progress. Some of the stuff is hand drawn. Some of it is digital pictures from my 1/72 scale models, some are just pictures from the web.

 

[Mikoyan]

Cool!