Anyone know why mods are causing random crashes?

[alysenne]

No crashes without mods.

With mods, I'm getting random crashes during gameplay, when I load, when I quit, when I go to main menu, etc.

Do we know the general reasons why mods are causing crashes? Is there something I should avoid?

I've made a few mods myself and I simply don't understand why minor changes like that are causing crashes.

 

[Irkalla]

No crashes without mods.

With mods, I'm getting random crashes during gameplay, when I load, when I quit, when I go to main menu, etc.

Do we know the general reasons why mods are causing crashes? Is there something I should avoid?

I've made a few mods myself and I simply don't understand why minor changes like that are causing crashes.

Because mods cause crashes. To hell if I know!

 

[whoward69]

No crashes without mods.

With mods, I'm getting random crashes during gameplay, when I load, when I quit, when I go to main menu, etc.

Do we know the general reasons why mods are causing crashes? Is there something I should avoid?

I've made a few mods myself and I simply don't understand why minor changes like that are causing crashes.

You are asking us to find a needle in a haystack, but without telling us how big the haywtack is, where it is, or even what colour the needle is!

Debugging is *ALL* about specifics, eg "with these mods loaded, if I do this this and this then this happens and after that the game crashes, and the log files contain, and here is the saved game from the turn before"

The only answer to "what causes the game to crash" is "something"

 

[alysenne]

Yes, I know I was being vague. Sorry about that. I was wondering if you guys had figured out some patterns yet. Like mods that change XXX are the likely culprits.

I don't understand the crashes because the mods only impact the game on a superficial level. You'd think Firaxis would have added enough exception/error handling to prevent crashing the entire program.

Is it possible that a mod that only changes the UI or changes a few numbers can causes crashes?

 

[whoward69]

I don't understand the crashes because the mods only impact the game on a superficial level.

Even simple mods can have a huge impact on the game engine (core DLLs) if they make changes that go against the basic assumptions made by the programmers within the DLL. What we may think of as "obviously the system should cope with this" is usually not the case - see next point

You'd think Firaxis would have added enough exception/error handling to prevent crashing the entire program.

You would, but they didn't. The basic rule you have to follow is "assume NOTHING unless the standard un-modded game, or one of the DLC scenarios, actually needs that feature to work"

Is it possible that a mod that only changes the UI

Yes, I've managed it with many UI only mods - the UI is non trivial, close a dialog when the system is not expecting it and BOOM!!!

or changes a few numbers can causes crashes?

Yes, if those changes cause an "index out of bounds exception"

 

[alysenne]

Sigh. Stuff like catching 'index out of bounds exceptions' is programming basics.

Thanks for the helpful responses.

And thanks for all the great mods...really helpful.

 

[whoward69]

Sigh. Stuff like catching 'index out of bounds exceptions' is programming basics.

try { } catch constructs appear to be a complete mystery to the Firaxis C++ developers (along with refactoring and key OO concepts/techniques like inheritance and factories)