[NFP] Apocalypse Mode

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Any one else find this to be a complete letdown? When was the last time you recall getting to the very end of the climate change track? If I am pushing HARD for pollution, my normal games on epic or standard typically end after the 2nd or 3rd spot on the track. How on earth are we supposed to even trigger the end game?

As it is now, it should be called Diplomatic Victory mode, because that's the main take away I get from it.
 

DWilson

Where am I? What turn is it?
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I think difficulty and your ability to outpace the AI has an impact. In my slower games, where the AI is closer to me in tech, climate change tends to happen fairly rapidly. In my better games, I tend not to struggle much with it. That's largely because my playstyle actively avoids contributing to climate change (rarely use coal or oil plants, rarely chop forests, and rarely create late game units).

After GS, I've seen many people claim that climate change was too potent (not my opinion).

They have tried to make it more predominant by starting the game in phase one.

Part of the fun of this optional mode, to me, is intentionally setting it off, and fighting against the tide of the fallout.
 

acluewithout

Deity
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I don’t think Apocalypse Mode is a let down. But it’s not for me.

It’s definitely got some wackiness to it, which is kinda fun. But it suffers from three issues which stop it being more interesting than it is.

First, the way disasters also produce more yields is pretty nuts. You end up with this crazy micro-manage cycle of build improvement, pillage, repair, Jesus these yields are nuts.

Second, the mechanics are pretty shallow and don’t integrate with anything. I’m not sure you should just unlock Soothsayers from turn 1. There’s no other “Disaster” style units. Soothsayers are bought with Faith, but there’s no other connection to Religion or things like that. No policy cards. No special Projects. I don’t think FXS needed to add a tonne of new disaster units or anything like that, but I think they need to create a bit more connection with existing mechanics. eg maybe Holy Site Projects to reduce disaster risks and or some new Religious Beliefs and or Apostles having Disaster related promotions, and maybe make Soothsayers require some sort of unlock. Maybe a few Policy Cards.

Third, there doesn’t seem to be much you can do defensively v Disasters. I guess you still have existing mechanics like Dams and Liang. But if there’s nothing defensive you can really do, then there’s not much going on tactically.

I get the tension a FXS face here. Add some stuff that’s fun, but also modular enough to fit with other game modes and mechanics and overall not too complicated. I think it mostly works on that score, even if it’s not to my taste. But it maybe needs a little more complexity, just at the edges. Or am I missing something?
 

Kwami

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Any one else find this to be a complete letdown? When was the last time you recall getting to the very end of the climate change track? If I am pushing HARD for pollution, my normal games on epic or standard typically end after the 2nd or 3rd spot on the track. How on earth are we supposed to even trigger the end game?

As it is now, it should be called Diplomatic Victory mode, because that's the main take away I get from it.

Well, the game starts on level 1 (instead of 0) and I bet that it goes up more quickly than it normally would, too. The live stream folks said that it's set to something like disaster level 8, too, so it's more disastrous and fun even if you don't get to the apocalypse.
 
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Second, the mechanics are pretty shallow and don’t integrate with anything. I’m not sure you should just unlock Soothsayers from turn 1.
I would have made them unlockable at Mysticism and maybe even requiring a shrine in a city to purchase one.
 

sonicmyst

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i have played my second game and because I want to get the achievement to be the last person standing when apocalypse comes, I continue playing even after I won via diplomatic win.

The aid competition is making this game mode nuts and a walk in the park for DV.

The comet strikes at the end game does not always wipe out a city. Sometimes it hits a four-tile area and makes those tiles impassable and has no yields. But for me to win the achievement I have to wipe out also the cities instead of just waiting for the comets to do their thing randomly.
 

Amrunril

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The soothsayers are definitely an odd addition to a history-themed game, but they do clearly fit the theme of the game mode and seem to provide a lot of interesting strategic potential. I'm actually starting to feel sold on them, of course with the caveat that they should stay in an optional game mode.

On the other hand, I'm very disappointed by how the endgame apocalypse works. Tying disaster rates to climate/CO2 makes sense when the disasters in question are storms, floods and fires, but it's pretty nonsensical when the disasters are apocalyptic asteroid impacts. I actually would have preferred the initial design of apocalyptic disasters being unlocked from the beginning (in my view, for a game-mode like this. the randomness and possibility of early annihilation are part of the appeal). If there is going to be a delay, though, a straight countdown would make much more sense.

I also think they could have given more thought to the nature of the apocalyptic disasters. An asteroid impact that utterly obliterates a large city but has no effect outside the initial blast radius really doesn't make much sense. At a minimum, here should be massive pillaging and population loss in a radius beyond the crater. I'd even go so far as to add secondary disasters (fires etc.) in an even larger radius and a global penalties to food production. If they wanted to really shake things up, they could even add alternate apocalyptic disasters, like truly massive volcanic eruptions, but whatever disasters fill this role should feel like true civilization-threatening apocalypses, not an accumulation of local catastrophes.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio Dev
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Yeah, it could have been an interesting addition if it were more integrated with the rest of the systems instead of being slapped on top.
 

Sic

Chieftain
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Oct 10, 2016
Messages
81
I absolutely do not understand why the soothsayer unit exists. I hate it.

This is Civilization. It is a historical game. It's about humanity on earth. Why are we suddenly moving away from that?

I was flabbergasted at the cartoony nonsense in this game at earlier points as well. The religious units with their lightning and the 60s Batman style cartoony hit visuals for the melee units, but the soothsayer is crossing into a realm that is unprecedented. This has nothing to do with the real world at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love CIV6, but I just don't get why Firaxis are hell-bent on making the game nonsensical. Why move away from the very basis of what Civ is?
 

Sostratus

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Any one else find this to be a complete letdown? When was the last time you recall getting to the very end of the climate change track? If I am pushing HARD for pollution, my normal games on epic or standard typically end after the 2nd or 3rd spot on the track. How on earth are we supposed to even trigger the end game?

As it is now, it should be called Diplomatic Victory mode, because that's the main take away I get from it.
>>Claims to be pushing hard for pollution
>>Can't even melt ice caps in 250 turns
You gotta up your coal game, son.

First, the way disasters also produce more yields is pretty nuts. You end up with this crazy micro-manage cycle of build improvement, pillage, repair, Jesus these yields are nuts.
I don't know if you have actually gotten to stage 7 apocalypse in game, but if you haven't, holy mother of sid meier does it get brutal.

Solar flares absolutely eviscerate districts and building and kill off advanced military units. I had almost all my IZs pillaged at once. They keep coming, of course.
Comets just straight up delete tiles and make them impassable. They seem to come roughly once per turn. They usually create 4 "impact zones" but also destroy anything around them. Every tile in this picture was improved, and there are 2 missing cities. This is over the span of about 15 turns (comets have hit many other spots around my empire and the world, too)
upload_2020-5-21_22-13-1.png

I have lost a number of cities and it's only been a few turns. Also, the light changes so you know you are doomed.

Fortunately, I launched my spaceship after repairing the spaceport from solar flare damage, so as long as I can hold on a little longer humanity will live on in another solar system. May they forgive us for our hubris...
 

Takfloyd

Prince
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Apr 17, 2005
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Bergen
Any one else find this to be a complete letdown? When was the last time you recall getting to the very end of the climate change track? If I am pushing HARD for pollution, my normal games on epic or standard typically end after the 2nd or 3rd spot on the track. How on earth are we supposed to even trigger the end game?

As it is now, it should be called Diplomatic Victory mode, because that's the main take away I get from it.

If you're NOT hitting max climate change, you probably need to turn up the difficulty. The AI will get you there pretty fast on Deity.
 

Sostratus

Deity
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This was taken 16 turns after my last screenshot. You can see the nice holes on my continent, which was 100% blue:
upload_2020-5-21_22-34-9.png

There are 1 tile comets that explicitly hit cities, it seems. Lost 4 cities from those little guys. And a good number more from bigger ones.
Spoiler Northern shot :

upload_2020-5-21_22-36-26.png


Spoiler Southern shot :

upload_2020-5-21_22-36-54.png



I seemed to get hit by a lot more than the AI on the other continent, maybe 3x more.
 
Joined
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Messages
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>>Claims to be pushing hard for pollution
>>Can't even melt ice caps in 250 turns
You gotta up your coal game, son.


I don't know if you have actually gotten to stage 7 apocalypse in game, but if you haven't, holy mother of sid meier does it get brutal.

Solar flares absolutely eviscerate districts and building and kill off advanced military units. I had almost all my IZs pillaged at once. They keep coming, of course.
Comets just straight up delete tiles and make them impassable. They seem to come roughly once per turn. They usually create 4 "impact zones" but also destroy anything around them. Every tile in this picture was improved, and there are 2 missing cities. This is over the span of about 15 turns (comets have hit many other spots around my empire and the world, too)
View attachment 556697
I have lost a number of cities and it's only been a few turns. Also, the light changes so you know you are doomed.

Fortunately, I launched my spaceship after repairing the spaceport from solar flare damage, so as long as I can hold on a little longer humanity will live on in another solar system. May they forgive us for our hubris...
From your screenshot, I can see the impact zones do not have any yields? Which is pretty weird since the civilopedia says it has +2 science and +2 faith. It also says these zones can be impacted by natural disasters to earn extra yields, but im dubious about how correct that is considering the first statement in the civilopedia is wrong. I won with the maya a bit too fast that I didnt even reach this stage.

What about solar flares, do they only happen in stage 7 climate change as well? Or do they happen earlier?
 

Jkchart

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I mean I enjoyed the wackiness of the mode but I didn’t get to the last level climate change To see the worst disasters (not even close) because i had 19 diplomatic victory points before the WC could even vote for diplo points...a shame because i would love an apocalyptic End game, trying to win and salvage what you can of your civ.

I’ll probably play that game some more just to see what it’s like but i think it needs a bit of tweaking. The amount of aid requests is so insane that it’s just too easy to win way before.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I mean I enjoyed the wackiness of the mode but I didn’t get to the last level climate change To see the worst disasters (not even close) because i had 19 diplomatic victory points before the WC could even vote for diplo points...a shame because i would love an apocalyptic End game, trying to win and salvage what you can of your civ.

I’ll probably play that game some more just to see what it’s like but i think it needs a bit of tweaking. The amount of aid requests is so insane that it’s just too easy to win way before.
I plan to play England next and just burn the living hell out of the planet.
 

Sostratus

Deity
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From your screenshot, I can see the impact zones do not have any yields? Which is pretty weird since the civilopedia says it has +2 science and +2 faith. It also says these zones can be impacted by natural disasters to earn extra yields, but im dubious about how correct that is considering the first statement in the civilopedia is wrong. I won with the maya a bit too fast that I didnt even reach this stage.

What about solar flares, do they only happen in stage 7 climate change as well? Or do they happen earlier?
"Impact Zones" are impassable tiles. Comets are different from Meteor Storms (the event that happens all game.)

Solar flares only come at level 7, thank God.
 
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