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Apollo ARC OCC contact win, steal science is OP?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by ggmoyang, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. rune42

    rune42 Chieftain

    Sep 25, 2010
    Just like how every sponsor has spies, every sponsor also has trade routes.
    ARC doesn't scale off number of cities, but neither does Polystralia.

    If you have 1 city, Polystralia has 66% more trade routes, but does not have the option for the overpowered internal trade routes.

    If you have 4 or more cities, Polystralia's bonus is less than 20% more trade routes.
    Meanwhile, ARC still has 25% faster ops and an easier time maintaining intrigue.
  2. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

    Jul 7, 2012
    Austin, TX
    No, but that's why this is actually an instructive exercise - we're looking at a win time that doesn't rely on the most broken and in-need-of-a-nerf aspect of the game - we're seeing a win time that will still probably hold after the next patch.

    The two lessons I see here are:
    -Steal science is a little too useful considering the high success rate - but not totally in the wrong yield ballpark. 258 OCC win potential is not a sign of a totally broken game.

    -The AI needs to attack in this game. Apollo AI should be eating most OCC attempts alive. One ponders over and over again why Civ still even has military units anymore when the devs have tamed the AI to the point of not attacking defenseless targets on sight unless it doesn't "like" them.
  3. Question

    Question King

    Mar 12, 2008
    Thats not a failure of the AI, i wouldnt waste time attacking a target if it wasnt beneficial (especially with warmonger penalties) However AIs should attack if you are close to winning.
  4. Aeson

    Aeson orangesoda Retired Moderator

    Nov 16, 2001
    He did use Trade Routes as well. Getting your Agents going ASAP relies heavily on those Trade Route yields, so the time will drop (baring some other change) if Trade Routes are nerfed.

    There's no problem with 250ish turn wins in any case. That's when the Apollo AI is likely to be getting close to their own wins. (How much a change to Trade Routes will affect them I'm not sure. Not as much as the player for sure.) Even though this was an OCC, it's relying on a system that doesn't really scale much with number of cities.
  5. manatap

    manatap Chieftain

    Jan 31, 2009
    Clearly they need to make steal science scale to the BPT of the faction you're targeting, instead of your own tech. Doesn't make sense otherwise.
  6. ggmoyang

    ggmoyang King

    Aug 25, 2011
    Rep. of Korea
    Yes, I beelined Information Warfare virtue. I did go for industry then but not sure about this, my virtues weren't coming fast enough and didn't help much while building those expensive projects.
  7. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

    Jun 21, 2008
    Congratulations on your win ggmoyang! :goodjob:

    25% of whatever tech you are researching is INSANE.

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