apostolic palace always messing up my domination

[christopher1234]

i want to build the apostolic palace from now on in my civ.if i get theology first and dont spread christianity except in my borders,will i retain all (or at least the majority) of the votes?.or should i let christianity spread just a little?.

in some of my games it gets really anoying after preparing through multiple eras towards a large military based expansion,only to have all my gains nullified by a civ with a majority vote

 

[jdstacey]

You can:

1) Build the AP yourself (or capture it )
2) Run Theology to prevent your civ from getting the AP religion (although this could make you an AP war target)
3) Spread the heck out of the AP religion if you have/get it. This will hopefully give you enough votes to block any resolutions you don't like.
4) Turn off diplomatic victories.

 

[Ataxerxes]

i want to build the apostolic palace from now on in my civ.if i get theology first and dont spread christianity except in my borders,will i retain all (or at least the majority) of the votes?.or should i let christianity spread just a little?.

in some of my games it gets really anoying after preparing through multiple eras towards a large military based expansion,only to have all my gains nullified by a civ with a majority vote

If you build the AP while Christian, spread it to all your cities and it doesn't spread a lot (unlikely as other cities prob. have earlier religions) you would own the majority of the votes. Some spreading wouldn't hurt as long as you control 50%.

That said, I don't think this is a good idea. Having a state religion different from all your neighbors is terrible diplomacy and spending the hammers on missionaries to spread your state religion and Christianity uses a lot of production. If I can, I do build the AP but adopt the religion of one of my neighbors. I then spread that religion to all my cities and hope for the best.

You shouldn't have all your gains nullified - the AP might stop the war or vote for you to give one city back. You can defy but that gets you 5 and you lose the religious building hammers for a number of turns. Also, it helps to time your wars to just after the AP has voted on something. That gives you maximum time before the AP votes on something to your detriment.

This isn't the worst the AP can do. If somebody else builds it and you don't have that religion you could be dogpiled. The AP is one of the leading causes of pain and frustration in the game.

 

[Mylene]

-5 unhapiness is not a big deal if you counter it with thingis like monarchy, theatres/coliseums, don't let that stop you from finishing wars.

 

[christopher1234]

@ataxerex. i wouldnt remain in christianity indefinately,as soon as i,m done builing the AP i,ll switch into another religion for diplomatic purposes.i dont mind that as long as i can expand and not have any negative occurences hamper my expansion.

 

[Ataxerxes]

@ataxerex. i wouldnt remain in christianity indefinately,as soon as i,m done builing the AP i,ll switch into another religion for diplomatic purposes.i dont mind that as long as i can expand and not have any negative occurences hamper my expansion.

That would work. Since four religions have already been founded it's unlikely Christianity will spread and you'll be the only one with Christianity. Even if Christianity spreads a little bit, you'll be the only possible resident unless somebody else adopts Christianity as a state religion. If you're the resident, the AP can't do anything to you even if you don't have the majority of the votes. Doing this you're going for denial of the AP similar to a conqueror building Sistine.

I admit I'm greedy for the extra hammers for AP religion building so I usually take my chances and build the AP when I'm in my state religion and my neighbors. But doing that you sometimes you do have problems as you noted.

As jdstacey noted, you can disable diplomatic victory. But that also eliminates the UN.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

When you say "all your gains nullified", do you mean that the cities are given back? or that you lose? or what?

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that if you are a full member (ie, running the state religion), you can't be asked to give up cities you've conquered.

And if you start an attack right after a vote comes up, you get 10 turns and by then, it may be time for a break, anyway.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Err... trying to found Christianity may slow you down a bit, and it's hard to reach it since the AI hits straight for it. But they always take a long time after theo to build it, because they're busy spreading the religion.

If I ever try to have a homegrown denial AP, it's usually Taoism (bulb Philio) and I'd only try that if I were very isolated/no aggressive zealots near me.

The other option is the world's big religion has come to you. Open your borders and reap the gifts. Then just take a crack and chop the AP; still get gold if you fail.

Also, if the AP religion is only in a minority if your cities, defying only affects those

 

[Ataxerxes]

When you say "all your gains nullified", do you mean that the cities are given back? or that you lose? or what?

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that if you are a full member (ie, running the state religion), you can't be asked to give up cities you've conquered.

And if you start an attack right after a vote comes up, you get 10 turns and by then, it may be time for a break, anyway.

I checked again and I think you're right. If he's a full member he doesn't have to give up cities. I wondered why I never had to give up cities. Makes it even better to have the AP religion as state religion. Just remember not to go to Free Religion or defy a resolution - you lose your full member status.

A lot of people don't pay attention to that last point. With the AP you have to time your attacks. In addition you can have the fun of calling a dogpile or telling a member (not a full member) to give you his city (they often do comply). This is actually a way to get a second city in an OCC (rare, but I've had it happen).

 

[christopher1234]

When you say "all your gains nullified", do you mean that the cities are given back? or that you lose? or what?

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that if you are a full member (ie, running the state religion), you can't be asked to give up cities you've conquered.

And if you start an attack right after a vote comes up, you get 10 turns and by then, it may be time for a break, anyway.

i was running free religion and yes they made me give up the best cities.

 

[christopher1234]

People can correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that if you are a full member (ie, running the state religion), you can't be asked to give up cities you've conquered. .

i,ll keep that in mind.this is the first i,m hearing of this.

 

[z0wb13]

...In addition you can have the fun of calling a dogpile or telling a member (not a full member) to give you his city (they often do comply). This is actually a way to get a second city in an OCC (rare, but I've had it happen).

whaaaaaa? i've never heard this. like you checked OCC and you were controlling 2 cities?

 

[coanda]

whaaaaaa? i've never heard this. like you checked OCC and you were controlling 2 cities?

Confirmed bug at least in early versions of BtS:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234004

Anyone know whether that was addressed in a subsequent patch?

 

[jdstacey]

I forgot (at least) one option:
5. Gift/trade Mass Media to the AP owner (if you have it). A lot of times, it won't be on their wanted list though, but I have successfully done this.

 

[Framesticker]

Raze the damn thing into dust