Apostolic Palace votes not occuring

[Spearthrower]

The civilopedia states that there are triggers or conditions for various edicts to be made, if you dont trigger them you wont get to make any calls.

For example, you cant win by diplomacy, unless *every* AI has at minimum 1 city with the AP Religion in it.

You cant issue an edict about war, unless there are civs with the AP religion at war.

 

[DrewTate]

i read things that you could try and instigate a crusade against other religions and stuff like that. it's nothing like it was advertised.

 

[Spearthrower]

Yes you can - if a non AP member declares war on an AP member, you can call for a crusade against them - all full AP members declare

 

[ajil]

okay I am bringing this back from the dead. This thing is very confusing to me. I have played several games trying to understand it, then i cam to the forums and read up on it. Armed with information, I started a new game planning on winning via the AP. So I found confuscianism (sp?), it naturally spreads to elizabeth, I send missionaries out so that every other civ has 1 city with my religion. While I am doing this I build the AP, it triggers the leader vote between me and elizabeth. I vote for me. The celts were to angry to allow open borders, eventually the declared on me, I decided to let them take a crappy city I had taken from elizabeth so that they would have a city with my religion. Long story short, I have played for probably 500 years and it still hasn't even told me the results of the election. When I go to the info screen, it says Elizabeth and I are full members, everyone else is a voting member. What the heck is going on?

 

[ajil]

well i went and played some more, after several reloads, I got it to work a little bit. I think the problem was that I was guaranteed to win the leader seat, b/c I was the only person to vote for. I sent a couple more missionaries out to china, and convinced them to switch to my religion. Next time elections came up, there were two options, and I won. But the diplomatic victory option never came around. So I am still confused on exactly how to trigger this. Someone please help me out here.

 

[KMadCandy]

patch 3.13 changed it so that even if every civ has 1 city with the AP religion, the victory election won't happen if one team has enough votes to win diplomatic victory by itself. even if everybody else would vote for you too (except your competition haha), they just don't get a chance to, it's a change to the rules. it's the same for UN diplomatic victory.

you can see how many votes everybody has on the F8 members screen. sometimes not when you first load the game, sometimes it takes until a vote happens for it to show up for me. anyway, once you can see that, if you're over the number but close, maybe you can send missionaries to AI cities that don't have the AP religion yet, so that their vote count increases, and that way your percentage goes down. and then hopefully somebody votes for you when you get below the magic number and then you win!

ps don't forget to vote for yourself even tho your own votes won't win it all by themselves. unless you're playing OCC-- winning diplomatic victory playing OCC voting against yourself is quite silly and fun at times

 

[Inky]

The AP is quite cool, but in order to get the most use of it you must make sure that you not only spread the AP religion, but get other civs to make it their state religion. Even so, unlike the UN AP votes won't occur unless the world situation has something going on which it can affect.

You must have the AP religion as state religion in order to get a lot of options which apply to you. If you switch religions, you lose the options, even though as builder of the AP you can still be resident.

Diplomatic victory requires that every civ have at least one city with the AP religion. Also, under 3.13 you must not have so many votes that your winning is guaranteed (a no contest election doesn't allow for voting).

If you want to get a good war going with the AP, this requires that several civs have the AP state religion and an enemy, at war with one of them, not have any cities with that religion. That will allow for the holy war vote, which can be devastating if you are the target.

In some games, the AP has a lot of power. In others, it can't do much because nobody accepts the AP religion.

It always offers hammer bonuses to the buildings of the AP religion, unless you defy a resolution, so there is an incentive to spread that religion around as much as possible, even if you don't have the holy city.

It can even pay to build the AP while in a religion you didn't found and don't control the holy city, because of the diplomatic power it can give. Picking a religion for the AP is a major factor in its power. Select a religion which is already state religion for several civs, and you'll get a lot of action from it. But unless you have more population in cities with that religion, you won't control the action.

But pick a religion that isn't widespread, and you are assured control of the AP. You won't get much action from it until you can spread that religion around, and that takes more effort. More missionaries, more diplomacy to convert (and keep converted) allies to that state religion.

Free religion messes up the AP, though it can work in your favor. My best ally but also leading AP vote competitor adopted Free Religion, disqualifying him for the AP leadership and diplomatic victory. He then voted for me, changing a deadlocked victory vote into a win.

This stuff can be a lot of fun.

 

[Spocko]

Hello,

In one of my games, another Civ built the AP and then imposed the Vassalage Civic and Theocracy Civic against my wishes (and I was given no choice to vote - one of my cities had the AP religion and suddenly, my Civics are automatically changed with no warning).

Eventually, I researched Mass Media, which obsoletes the AP. But I still have no ability to switch away from Vassalage or Theocracy.

I'm used to building the AP and weilding its power - this is the first time I've had to deal with its power against my will.

How do we escape the yoke of the AP, especially since it appears that while it can be obsoleted, it doesn't relinquish its hold on your Civics?

Thanks,
Spocko

 

[gunter]

I still have to understand if I didn't yet realized how they are supposed to work or if they are bugged anyway in my last game I built both and I have never been able to destroy them,how can I do that ?

Thanks

 

[Inspector Javert]

I think it's buggy too for one thing once a war breaks out there should be an instant vote on how to handle it. I also think you should be able to propose resolutions through the victory menu

 

[gunter]

I still have to understand if I didn't yet realized how they are supposed to work or if they are bugged anyway in my last game I built both and I have never been able to destroy them,how can I do that ?

Thanks

Any suggestions ?

That's quite a shame that I can build a wonder but I can't destroy it ( or at least it should be possible gifting an own city to another civ and then razing the city itself ) but this way is definitely " not elegant " .

 

[KMadCandy]

In one of my games, another Civ built the AP and then imposed the Vassalage Civic and Theocracy Civic against my wishes (and I was given no choice to vote - one of my cities had the AP religion and suddenly, my Civics are automatically changed with no warning).

Eventually, I researched Mass Media, which obsoletes the AP. But I still have no ability to switch away from Vassalage or Theocracy.

the AP has no power to impose civic changes at all. the UN can do it, so i can see how you'd connect the two hitting on the same turn, but that can't be what happened. you can use spies to change somebody's civics, that's got to be it.

i've never had the AI change my civics, so i'm not sure what you see or how it gets implemented. i would expect a notification that an infiltrator had changed your civics. obviously i'm guessing, but you get a message that they destroyed a farm or sabotaged production or an existing building even when you don't catch them. it's easy to miss those tho.

did you keep checking whether you could change back, or expect a pop-up to appear when you were able to change back? i doubt there'd be a pop-up. there may well be a bug with changing back afterwards. when i change the AI's civics, they tend to not change back only 5 turns afterwards, they wait a little while longer. maybe they do that every time and i just haven't noticed. oh, maybe you can't change back after just 5 turns, you have to wait 5 turns + the time you would have been in anarchy if you'd made the change yourself, even tho a "spy-forced swap" is instant with no anarchy? would be weird tho, and extra harsh.

because you still have no way to change back, i suspect a bug with that spy-change thing. and that definitely would need looking into. but it's not an AP bug.

spies can also force the same sort of change for religion. it's like bribing in that you can only change someone into a civic/religion you're using yourself. if you're the victim, that can be a way to tell who did it i guess, if you didn't catch the culprit, by checking the info screen to see who's in those civics.

ps i'm not trying to be condescending. i'm just trying to explain what happened, and see if there is indeed a bug in that spy mechanic. plus maybe figure out how to find the culprit to get revenge!

 

[Spocko]

the AP has no power to impose civic changes at all. the UN can do it, so i can see how you'd connect the two hitting on the same turn, but that can't be what happened. you can use spies to change somebody's civics, that's got to be it.

i've never had the AI change my civics, so i'm not sure what you see or how it gets implemented. i would expect a notification that an infiltrator had changed your civics. obviously i'm guessing, but you get a message that they destroyed a farm or sabotaged production or an existing building even when you don't catch them. it's easy to miss those tho.

did you keep checking whether you could change back, or expect a pop-up to appear when you were able to change back? i doubt there'd be a pop-up. there may well be a bug with changing back afterwards. when i change the AI's civics, they tend to not change back only 5 turns afterwards, they wait a little while longer. maybe they do that every time and i just haven't noticed. oh, maybe you can't change back after just 5 turns, you have to wait 5 turns + the time you would have been in anarchy if you'd made the change yourself, even tho a "spy-forced swap" is instant with no anarchy? would be weird tho, and extra harsh.

because you still have no way to change back, i suspect a bug with that spy-change thing. and that definitely would need looking into. but it's not an AP bug.

spies can also force the same sort of change for religion. it's like bribing in that you can only change someone into a civic/religion you're using yourself. if you're the victim, that can be a way to tell who did it i guess, if you didn't catch the culprit, by checking the info screen to see who's in those civics.

ps i'm not trying to be condescending. i'm just trying to explain what happened, and see if there is indeed a bug in that spy mechanic. plus maybe figure out how to find the culprit to get revenge!

Thanks for your response KMadCandy. After all your writing, I realized that I modded my BtS to allow the AP to vote on some of the mid-level civics - and they did! So, I removed this capability to bring it all back into balance.

Thanks for your reply anyway - and no problem as I didn't think you were trying to be condescending.

Spocko

 

[KMadCandy]

ah! well i'm glad you figured out what the trouble was. now go get revenge on somebody anyway