Arafat -- Why string him along?

[amadeus]

With all of the terrorism in Isreal, why is the Isreali leadership stringing Arafat along? Either he doesn't want peace, or can't control his own people.

Knowing that, why is Arafat even being kept alive, or, kept in Isreal? He's shown resolve to do one thing -- destroy the Jewish state and kill the Jewish people in doing so.

So, why bother with him?

 

[S.P.Q.R.]

In my opinion, Arafat lacks not the will, but the power to control the terrorists.... and that he is powerless is certainly no valid reason to kill or banish a human.

 

[Eli]

He sure had the power in the first year of the intifada. Why didnt he do something? Because he has no will.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Except that he has commited and sanctioned terrorist killings in the past...

I'd like to see Sharon in front of "The Hague" and Arafat would certainly not be out of place either.

My view of Israeli policy towards Arafat:

IF he is worth keeping alive then talk to him and sort it out.
IF he is not worth talking to then kill him and negociate with the next person.

And also the madness of:

Demanding Arafat arrest the terrorists whilst targeting the Palestinian Police Force...


Quite clearly Arafat has been able in the past to certain sanction killings, but I don't think he has the power to stop Hamas activists operating as they do against Israel. Until there is a peace process with neither side being required to surrender then there will be no peace.

There will be a Palestinian Homeland...the question is how much more blood will it cost them.

 

[Hamlet]

heh, I can't believe how politically naive this is.

If Arafat dies, then there will be uproar. A possible regional war in the worst case scenario.

He is not just some pleb the Israeli leadership can 'take out' whenever they wish.

And if Arafat did have any control over events then it disappeared a loongggggg time ago.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Except that he has commited and sanctioned terrorist killings in the past...

I'd like to see Sharon in front of "The Hague" and Arafat would certainly not be out of place either.

My view of Israeli policy towards Arafat:

IF he is worth keeping alive then talk to him and sort it out.
IF he is not worth talking to then kill him and negociate with the next person.

And also the madness of:

Demanding Arafat arrest the terrorists whilst targeting the Palestinian Police Force...


Quite clearly Arafat has been able in the past to certain sanction killings, but I don't think he has the power to stop Hamas activists operating as they do against Israel. Until there is a peace process with neither side being required to surrender then there will be no peace.

There will be a Palestinian Homeland...the question is how much more blood will it cost them.

Why would you "like to see Sharon in front of "The Hague""? He hasn't done any war crime.
Arafat isn't worth talking to but Israel can't kill him and move to the next person. Not only it would create a huge anti-Israeli international reaction it would also make any peace agreement achieved illigal - the Palestinian leader will be too scared to refuse anything Israel says.
Arafat may not have the power now but he's the one who started the intifada and if he can't stop it then he's the one to blame. The fact is that Arafat is not only not stoping terrorists, his own orgenization has sent more terrorists then any other orgenization. There was a peace process and Arafat rejected it.
The Palestinians will have a country. The question is when they'll agree to let Israelis have one.

 

[sysyphus]

Originally posted by G-Man

Arafat isn't worth talking to but Israel can't kill him and move to the next person. Not only it would create a huge anti-Israeli international reaction it would also make any peace agreement achieved illigal - the Palestinian leader will be too scared to refuse anything Israel says.
Arafat may not have the power now but he's the one who started the intifada and if he can't stop it then he's the one to blame. The fact is that Arafat is not only not stoping terrorists, his own orgenization has sent more terrorists then any other orgenization. There was a peace process and Arafat rejected it.
The Palestinians will have a country. The question is when they'll agree to let Israelis have one.

G-Man, you've pretty much hit it on the nose.

What it all boils down to is that this situation is one very ugly stalemate.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Seems the year long smear campaign vs Sharon has born fruit.

I notice no case has been brought against him, yet I keep hearing what a war criminal he is.

Arafat is scum, and I don't think killing him will cause much of an uproar as people seem to think.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Indeed. He shouldn't be strung along; he should be strung up.
Hung out a window like the vile mobs did to those two Israeli soldiers last year.
He is a complete irrelevancy, and I am with AoA in believing that his demise will not be the trigger of World War 3.

 

[G-Man]

It won't start WW3 but it will cause some big international problems to Israel and will make anything agreed upon in the future irrelevant. I say we isolate him. Totaly. Let the world forget him.

 

[Flatlander Fox]

Remember how well that worked with Nelson Mandela?

Kitten's point about power is a good one, but Arafat CANNOT admit that he doesn't have the power to stop. So he doesn't say anything at all.

There is no good way to resolve this.

 

[G-Man]

Even if he can't stop terrorists it doesn't mean he has to lead them. His orgenization has commited more terror attacks then the hamas and the islamic jihad together. The fatah and his sub orgenizations have taken responsibility for over 10,000 attacks against Israelis this intifada. This is very very far from wanting peace.

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

The problem with Arafat is this: he longer has any control, as many of you have correctly stated, but he is also too proud (or too much of a tyrant, perhaps) to admit it and step down. He wants to be the one who brings a state to the Palestinians. Now, cornered, he's doing the worst thing he could possibly be doing--saying that he would welcome martyrdom. Even if he wasn't encouraging the wackos before, he certainly is now.

The problem with Sharon is this: despite "no case being brought against him" as AoA says (not strictly true, as I seem to remember his being charged with a war crime while Defense Minister years ago and having had to resign as a result), he is seen by the Palestinians as being a war criminal. Unfair as it may or may not be, he also should step down for the sake of peace.

In fact, I think Israeli voters themselves should be accepting some of the blame for the current crisis for electing Sharon in the first place, when it was plainly obvious years ago that doing so would piss off the PA. Yeah, it was their choice, and their country, and they can elect whomever the hell they want, but it was most definitely an opportunity to extend an olive branch to the Palestinians. Instead they raised a fist.

 

[Pellaken]

I think that Arafat is insignificant.... so is Sharon.

the people of Israel and Palistine want war... what can we do to stop them?

 

[amadeus]

You really think the Isrealis want war? I'm sure there's nothing that people like G-Man love, like having suicide bombers walk into cafes and blow themselves up, right?

You're way off on this one. Isreal wants a solution. Palestinians want destruction of Isreal. What's the solution to that?

If you give the Palestinians a state, all they're going to do is turn into another Syria or Lebanon.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by goodbye_mr_bond
The problem with Arafat is this: he longer has any control, as many of you have correctly stated, but he is also too proud (or too much of a tyrant, perhaps) to admit it and step down. He wants to be the one who brings a state to the Palestinians. Now, cornered, he's doing the worst thing he could possibly be doing--saying that he would welcome martyrdom. Even if he wasn't encouraging the wackos before, he certainly is now.

The problem with Sharon is this: despite "no case being brought against him" as AoA says (not strictly true, as I seem to remember his being charged with a war crime while Defense Minister years ago and having had to resign as a result), he is seen by the Palestinians as being a war criminal. Unfair as it may or may not be, he also should step down for the sake of peace.

In fact, I think Israeli voters themselves should be accepting some of the blame for the current crisis for electing Sharon in the first place, when it was plainly obvious years ago that doing so would piss off the PA. Yeah, it was their choice, and their country, and they can elect whomever the hell they want, but it was most definitely an opportunity to extend an olive branch to the Palestinians. Instead they raised a fist.

How do you know?
He didn't even try!
You all seem to ignore that arafat is in the head of the largest terror organization in palestine
This is what he does:
-Ordered a ship full of weapons
-Buys illegal weapons from EU money
-FUNDS MANIPULATING EDUCATION
-Encourages Terrorists
-His own organization sent the largest number of terrorists, and caused the deadliest attacks
-HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO STOP TERROR

Why do you all say Israel want war?

WE TRIED PEACE SO MANY TIMES, AND IT DIDNT WORK

How many PM's do we have to go through to prove you that? How many peace offers? How many one-sided cease fires that ARAFAT USED TO HURT AS MUCH ISRAELIES AS POSSIBLE.

God, you all seem to be so blind.
Israel tried about every ****ing PM possible, and nothing succeeded. One reached a peace process that was denied by arafat. One reached a cease fire that was denied by arafat.
All of them tried one sided retreats, and each time we did that arafat DID NOT CALL HIS ORGANIZATION OR ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION TO STOP SENDING TERRORISTS.

Do you deny the fact that arafat is in the head of THE FATAH, the LARGEST palestinien terror organization (Funded in 1965 btw, before the 1967 war)?
Do you deny the fact that the only side that preformed one sided retreats and very risky peace offers were Israel?
Do you deny the fact that ARAFATS OWN ORGANIZATION killed hundreds of innocent Israelies?
Do you deny the fact that sharon did everything he could to reach peace? This includes one sided retreat that caused this bloody passover. 'Passover Massacre' - Do you forget CNN Headlines so fast?
Do you deny the fact that Arafat refused peace offers to Ehud Barak, a left movement PM, and started the intifada?
Do you deny the fact that arafat never called to the cease of that intifada ever since?
Do you deny the fact that it was ARAFAT who denied peace in camp david, 2000?
Do you deny the fact that arafat was given complete control and funding over his people in 1993 in the oslo agreement, funding and control he only used in order to manipulate his people against Israel?
Do you deny the fact that arafat wants to be martyred?
Do you deny the fact that arafat is no better than bin-laden?


For all we know, from all past experiences, for all we have been through, we now know that arafat REFUSES PEACE AND CEASE FIRES WHEN THEY COME KNOCKING AT HIS DOORS.

Then why the fu** should we stand him while USA gets free permission to blast the **** out of the taliban and set up a puppet government?

You are all saying that killing arafat will cause that and that and that, but if it wasn't for the two-faced hypocritic bad diplomatic arab nations, it wasn't such a fuss.
Arafat is a bloody terrorist, he is the man incharge of the largest amount of DEAD JEWS SINCE HITLER.

We tried peace, we tried retreating our troops, we tried giving him control over education and his people, we even funded his own royal guard and it is now sending terrorists.
Now, what the **** do you want from sharon? What could you have done ANY BETTER?

Arafat deserves the same fate Bin-Laden does, the same fate the head of the hamas deserves and the SAME ****ING FATE the head of the islamic jihad deserves.

If we can't kill him, at least let us isolate him and let him starve to death.

It can't get any worse.
Even if the hamas would go incharge of the palestinien people it would be better, at least then the world would know what kind of enemy we are facing, not some terrorist hiding behind a nobel peace prize.

 

[RedWolf]

Originally posted by rmsharpe

You're way off on this one. Isreal wants a solution. Palestinians want destruction of Isreal. What's the solution to that?

If you give the Palestinians a state, all they're going to do is turn into another Syria or Lebanon.

It's all so simple in your head isn't it?

The "israeli's want a solution" idea is crap. Some of them definitely want a solution - but public opinion varies greatly.

You can find jews that hate the palestinians as a race and believe in the total destruction of palestine. Some israeli's hold views very much the same as white slave owners in the southern US 200 years ago. They believe ALL of them are sub-human savages.

Many Israeli's believe that Palestinians have no right ever to their own state and should always live under occupation from israel as second class citizens. Many Israelis beleive that the West Bank and Gaza Strip is "their land" and that the Palestinians should be thrown off it - which is ironic considering they actually STOLE it from them.

If you were a Palestinian person what would YOU do? Would you just accept this as your lot in life? How about after Israeli gunships blew away three of your friends in the street and your neighbour's 6 year old daughter was gunned down by IDF soldiers? I'm sure you'd learn to hate right back.

And yes some Palestinians want the destruction of Israel... and some of them simply want their land back and the right to self rule.

But how can peace ever happen when we have these opposing views? Israelis that believe that Palestinians should live in occupied terrritory and like it or LEAVE.. and Palestinians that believe the Jews should be thrown back into the ocean.

Just make no mistake... this situation isn't as black and white as you make it out to be...

 

[VoodooAce]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Seems the year long smear campaign vs Sharon has born fruit.

I notice no case has been brought against him, yet I keep hearing what a war criminal he is.

Arafat is scum, and I don't think killing him will cause much of an uproar as people seem to think.

I didn't need any year long 'smear' campaign to know that Sharon is Satan himself.

I knew damn well, as did everybody else, that when he made his divisive trip to the Wall that it would be the beginning of an Intafada.

Anyone that didn't see it coming is either blind, naive, or doesn't want to see the truth out of blind nationalism.....which is in no shortage on these boards.

Sharon wanted war, he got it. He as responsible for the deaths of civilians there as any other individual. Arafat is powerless to stop them....that much is also obvious.

Both Arafat and Sharon deserve bullets in the brain.

Arafat's murder may not cause an 'uproar' as you say, but Sharons would put a smile on my face.

 

[Pellaken]

no... israel and palistine want war
why?
cause they want peace

that dosent make sence? of course not, but its true.

look at this:
palistine will only sign a peace deal if XXX is done
israel will only sign a peace deal if YYY is done
israel would rather fight then accept XXX
palistine would rather fight then accept YYY

so TOO BAD! eathier accept the other's terms, or else.

palistine, you can never have the "right of return" to israel proper. Israel, you'r gonna have to part with most of west jerusalem. if these arent done, then there will be war. no matter WHO's fault it is.

 

[NY Hoya]

Originally posted by RedWolf
The "israeli's want a solution" idea is crap. Some of them definitely want a solution - but public opinion varies greatly.

You can find jews that hate the palestinians as a race and believe in the total destruction of palestine. Some israeli's hold views very much the same as white slave owners in the southern US 200 years ago. They believe ALL of them are sub-human savages.

Many Israeli's believe that Palestinians have no right ever to their own state and should always live under occupation from israel as second class citizens. Many Israelis beleive that the West Bank and Gaza Strip is "their land" and that the Palestinians should be thrown off it - which is ironic considering they actually STOLE it from them.

Of course public opinion varies and of course there are probably some Israelis think of Palestinians as sub-humans. I can find plenty of other ethnic groups who have racists in their midst. But the fact of the matter is that the Israelis have demonstrated a willingness to end the conflict that the Palestinian leadership has not. That's a fact.

What makes you even think that Arafat wants peace? Has he ever shown a real willingness to end the conflict?

Originally posted by RedWolf
If you were a Palestinian person what would YOU do? Would you just accept this as your lot in life? How about after Israeli gunships blew away three of your friends in the street and your neighbour's 6 year old daughter was gunned down by IDF soldiers? I'm sure you'd learn to hate right back.

And yes some Palestinians want the destruction of Israel... and some of them simply want their land back and the right to self rule.

But why does the answer have to be suicide bombings of innocent civillians? Why can't the Palestinians show the same type of restraint of a Gandhi or a Martin Luther King? Why must they hinder their own cause through terrorism? I understand the choice they have made, but as a result, they can't expect any sympathy on my part, the part of many Americans, and certainly not of the Israeli people they target daily.