Are Barbarians Racist?

[Returning Lurker]

I'm not referring to any sort of meta-narrative "Is our depictions of tribal societies as inferior to civilizations problematic and what is civilization and blah blah blah?" argument, I'm saying specifically in the confines of the game do barbarians have a preference to attack certain sides above others, specifically whichever one the player happens to be using? I was playing a game as Spain and wanted to conquer England as I was on a hammer shaped continent and the two of us were on opposite sides of the "head", meaning that if I wiped her out I'd have tons of space for new cities and would only have to defend one narrow isthmus from land-borne invasions. I built up an army of warriors, archers, and a state of the art top of the line spearman, marched them east to England's defenseless cities with its puny armies, and prepared myself for what should have been a very simple campaign. Instead, what should've been a crushing victory for me was turned into an absolute bloodbath as I was swarmed, and I mean SWARMED by barbarian spearmen and archers. They marched clean through the south and western side of England, ignored all their pristine unpillaged farmlands and helpless builders and critically wounded fleeing soldiers, and marched right into my Spanish army effectively acting as reinforcements to England and grinding my assault to a halt. I was forced to withdraw as the barbarians simply would not attack anyone but my units and even brought in naval reinforcements. It would have made for funny lore for that world's history books if it weren't so insanely infuriating and unfun that I save scummed and will now divert my entire freaking army south just to wipe out the barbarians before healing them and marching them all the way back up north wasting no fewer than a dozen turns because the barbarians are a bunch of Anglophile racist bigots who will go out of their way to screw good honest Spaniards even to the complete detriment of their own endgoals.

But seriously, are barbarians programmed to prioritize attacking the player or was this just a fluke of weird AI behavior? Are the AI Barbarians racist towards humans?

 

[bite]

I don't know, but it does always feel like they pick me over the AI every time

 

[Jaybe]

At higher difficulty levels do barbs get a combat advantage over the player and not over AI civs? If so, that would explain it if you were not at prince or lower difficulty. The barbs were just going for the easiest targets.

 

[Returning Lurker]

At higher difficulty levels do barbs get a combat advantage over the player and not over AI civs? If so, that would explain it if you were not at prince or lower difficulty. The barbs were just going for the easiest targets.

But I wasn't the easiest targets. Like I said, the English had undefended builders free for the taking and critically wounded soldiers ripe for the killing, and yet the barbarians ignored those and instead focused on grinding away at my healthy archers and only lightly banged up (the lowest was a 75% before the barbarian attacks, the rest were between 90 and full health) foot soldiers. They had so many more reasonable targets yet they walked straight past those targets and straight past the unpillaged improvements and straight past the actual city in the area all just to fight my guys.

 

[Turbofish]

I typically play on Emperor or Immortal, and I also feel that barbs tend to attack me over the AI. I find it especially so when the city I'm attacking spawns rebel barbs due to the low amenities.

 

[Leyrann]

At higher difficulty levels do barbs get a combat advantage over the player and not over AI civs? If so, that would explain it if you were not at prince or lower difficulty. The barbs were just going for the easiest targets.

I'm pretty sure the barbs actually never get combat bonuses against the player.

 

[Tacgnol]

I've seen something like this happen - I took China's capital as they were fighting off rebels, and the rebels immediately stopped fighting their army to attack my troops.

I rather like the effect - after all, when rebel forces rise up in a nation wracked by war, they're likely to view the invading foreign army as a main threat and a greater enemy than their own countrymen. Likewise aggressive barbarian tribes might temporarily disregard their rival to fight off an invading foreign force (you). It's certainly not as if the barbarians don't cause trouble for the AI.

 

[Gorbles]

I frequently lead Barbarians into conflicts with other AI player units, so no, haven't seen much evidence of this myself. I don't play on the highest difficulties, mind.

 

[king of nowhere]

I think barbarians into a national border will prioritize attacking foreign troops. It just seems that they attack the player more often because it is more often the player who is conquering the AI. I have also seen what tacgnol saw, and I also liked the concept

I've seen something like this happen - I took China's capital as they were fighting off rebels, and the rebels immediately stopped fighting their army to attack my troops.

I rather like the effect - after all, when rebel forces rise up in a nation wracked by war, they're likely to view the invading foreign army as a main threat and a greater enemy than their own countrymen. Likewise aggressive barbarian tribes might temporarily disregard their rival to fight off an invading foreign force (you). It's certainly not as if the barbarians don't cause trouble for the AI.

but i have seen it also in reverse. once in a godlike game I was attacked by overwhelming forces from the north when a massive barbarian horde arrived from the south. the barbarians ignored my city, turned around it and killed the egyptian invasion force, saving me - I'd have been conquered only a couple turns later otherwise. Only after the last egyptian was killed did they turn on me, but they were weakened enough that my slinger could finish them. So both the egyptians and the barbarians saved me from the other side

 

[Victoria]

The AI gets a difficulty combat bonus against you +1 for king up to +4 for emperor

I thought the barbs just hated me, I would not be surprised if they are biased against us but AI doubt they have labelled that bias racist.

I certainly think rebels like me, I rarely get attacked by them, but then I am attacking their enemy

For every time they attack me when they should not be I just still thank them for stopping their scouts attacking my workers but still taking AI workers. That's another good reason for scouts, to gather up all those Barb builders and settlers

 

[Rosty K]

They can read thoughts too. In a situation where my unit and a city-state unit are standing next to a barbarian, and my unit is about to receive the promotion, the barbarian will always attack the CS unit and die

 

[Returning Lurker]

I've seen something like this happen - I took China's capital as they were fighting off rebels, and the rebels immediately stopped fighting their army to attack my troops.

I rather like the effect - after all, when rebel forces rise up in a nation wracked by war, they're likely to view the invading foreign army as a main threat and a greater enemy than their own countrymen. Likewise aggressive barbarian tribes might temporarily disregard their rival to fight off an invading foreign force (you). It's certainly not as if the barbarians don't cause trouble for the AI.

I would understand why rebels would attack me (kind of) but why random raiders from a completely different place? Their goal is to steal everything that isn't bolted down and make it back relatively unkilled, so why are they intentionally ignoring the treasures and marching hundreds of miles out of their way to attack a group of people they have no real beef with? If anything, shouldn't the barbarians be on my side? Since we're both in the borders of the same civilization and I'm providing a huge distraction for their incursions effectively giving them a free ticket to do whatever they want so lo long as the city of London falls to me. Shouldn't they be using the chaos to just take what they want and high tail it out of their with their bags of loot before I take control and start defending my newly acquired countryside? I mean if the barbarians were attacking MY cities while my army was preoccupied in the England campaign I'd get it, it would suck for me but I could see the logic, instead they are ignoring my cities, marching through England and ignoring their cities, all just to fight my well equipped and sizable army rather than the ragtag heavily crippled English army. There is simply no logic behind it unless the barbarians are predisposed to hatred against Human controlled Spaniards or any other human civilization.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

One thing that may have happened is a rouge scout got away. If a scout has seen your city (has the !, which I believe does not reset when they run into a new city) then whenever they run into a new encampment they sent the barbs to you, regardless of their original encampment. So, for instance, you cleared everything but one scout escapes, he runs to the nearest encampment, in this case on the other side of England, and gives the orders to attack your city. Now the barbs are on a collision course for you come hell or high water.

 

[Returning Lurker]

One thing that may have happened is a rouge scout got away. If a scout has seen your city (has the !, which I believe does not reset when they run into a new city) then whenever they run into a new encampment they sent the barbs to you, regardless of their original encampment. So, for instance, you cleared everything but one scout escapes, he runs to the nearest encampment, in this case on the other side of England, and gives the orders to attack your city. Now the barbs are on a collision course for you come hell or high water.

They are ignoring my city though. My nearest city is to the east, London is to the North, and the barbarians are riding in from the southwest. They are marching up, past my city, into England, past England's city, and into my army which is invading from the east. If they spotted my city and were attacking it while I was in England I'd just chalk that up to bad luck and move on but these guys are ignoring everything just to murder my honorable Spanish soldiers in their courageous sneak attack against the defenseless warlords of England.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

They are ignoring my city though. My nearest city is to the east, London is to the North, and the barbarians are riding in from the southwest. They are marching up, past my city, into England, past England's city, and into my army which is invading from the east. If they spotted my city and were attacking it while I was in England I'd just chalk that up to bad luck and move on but these guys are ignoring everything just to murder my honorable Spanish soldiers in their courageous sneak attack against the defenseless warlords of England.

It would be the city they scouted, I think. Again not sure if that is how the scout system works, but I have seen barbs pass up closer cities for the city they originally scouted. Also they may have a priority to kill your soldiers to make raiding your city easier.