Are castles worth building in cities that aren't on the front line?

[Sephlock]

I guess what I'm really asking is, is the additional trade route + espionage points worth the hammers?

Espionage points I can see, but frankly I've never really understood trade.

I know all that stuff about the game auto selecting the trade routes that are worth the most, and needing a connection to foreign cities by coastline, river, or road... but what it boils down to is this:

I look at my income.

I see it is X gold per turn.

I get some wonder or set of buildings that boosts the number or yield of trade routes.

I still get X gold per turn.

Conclusion: trade routes are worthless.

-_-. I know they aren't from all the posts on here- I know I'm wrong, but I don't know HOW I'm wrong. WTH is up with trade? At what point in the game does the money really start rolling in- since the time when you most need cash (in the early game) it doesn't...

?

 

[Spearthrower]

I look at my income.

I see it is X gold per turn.

I get some wonder or set of buildings that boosts the number or yield of trade routes.

I still get X gold per turn.

Conclusion: trade routes are worthless.

What probably happens in those circumstances are that you build the G Lighthouse, for example.... but at that point in the game, you either don't have any coastal trade routes available, or don't have many coastal cities... so you don't see an increase immediately. This isn't always the case - last game I built the G Lighthouse, my income nearly doubled - it depends on the circumstances. Also bear in mind that if you are on 100% science, you aren't going to see an increase in your income, but you will be getting an increase in your science - it's commerce they're generating, not gold.

Internal trade routes dont count for much.... foreign routes can get fairly large... but intercontinental routes can power you through the latter half of the game with the right strats.

Personally, I put castles where I need them.... either on a frontier city for the defense boost, in a high commerce city for the espionage boost or in a coastal city for the trade routes. They're not a high priority for me though in any game.

 

[Sephlock]

intercontinental routes can power you through the latter half of the game with the right strats.

DO TELL!

And while you're at it, tell me if the temple of Artemis is worth it.

 

[Soneji]

I never build either of those two temples in the early stages..

 

[AySteve]

Personally I think the biggest problem with castles is that they obselete so early.

I recently played a game with the idea of concentrating on lots of cities with spy specialits to steal tech, and large enough to get decent trade routes to fund self research. It worked better than I was expecting (the espionage at least) but I didnt have nearly enough cities to get a decent amount of trade routes to power research.

Before I started I thought castles looked extremly appealing with the +1 trade route and espionage bonus, but when it actually game to it I had far more important things to build. Plus the fact that castles obsolete meant I was holding off on economics to keep the espionage bonus, when I could have got +1 trade routes without the need to build castles by going to free market (by economics) and then corporation.

 

[Soneji]

It depends on which speed you play, I play marathon... and I feel that I get a long enough medieval period that building castles is worth while. (In certain cases, not all)

 

[Jedoc]

The Temple of Artemis is the only wonder I know of that provides more advantages if you let the AI build it...as long as you use your Great Merchants for trade missions instead of settling them. See, the amount of money you get from a trade mission is based on the distance from your capital AND the amount of trade that city is doing. Happily, the trade bonus from the Temple is applied directly to the pile of gold you get from a trade mission. So popping a Great Merchant in the same city as the Temple will net you DOUBLE what you would usually receive from that city.

Now, I settle most of my Great Merchants, but I also keep an eye on where the Temple of Artemis is built. You never do know when your economy will need an enormous inflow of cash.

 

[Soneji]

How would you know directly where that temple is built though?

 

[CivDude86]

If its in the one of the top 5 cities its easy to find. Don't know how far back the event log goes but clicking on the event will bring the city to you. Otherwise you'll have to zoom into every city and look for it.

 

[Loopy]

Personally I think the biggest problem with castles is that they obselete so early.

That and when you get rifling you can't build castles in unwalled cities. I mean if I want to build a structure that increases trade and espionage what should it matter that I know grooves help guns?

 

[Bast]

The Temple of Artemis is the only wonder I know of that provides more advantages if you let the AI build it...as long as you use your Great Merchants for trade missions instead of settling them. See, the amount of money you get from a trade mission is based on the distance from your capital AND the amount of trade that city is doing. Happily, the trade bonus from the Temple is applied directly to the pile of gold you get from a trade mission. So popping a Great Merchant in the same city as the Temple will net you DOUBLE what you would usually receive from that city.

Now, I settle most of my Great Merchants, but I also keep an eye on where the Temple of Artemis is built. You never do know when your economy will need an enormous inflow of cash.

Wow, I didn't know this. Thanks.

 

[Inspector Javert]

on the subject of trade routes, when you use your privateers to blockade does it just block commerce or does it block resources as well?

 

[mudphud]

If its in the one of the top 5 cities its easy to find. Don't know how far back the event log goes but clicking on the event will bring the city to you. Otherwise you'll have to zoom into every city and look for it.

Actually in the top 5 cities screen there is a list of the wonders and where they have been built if that information is available to you.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Stickler note:
Trade routes give you commerce , which is divided up by your sliders into , , , and .

If you're running 100% science, you'll see no increase in your gold from that city. It will go to research. Only things like holy shrines, that give "gold" directly, will increase your production that turn.
Make sure you aren't looking at the wrong number.

edit: That trade route from the castle can give you 6 or 7 commerce per turn if it's a big city that has a foreign trade route to trade with. Whether it's worth it... depends on the game.

 

[Molon Labe]

Interesting. Trade is something I know very little about and haven't paid too much attention to, but lately have been reading things that make me want to focus on it in my next game.

I believe I could count on two fingers the amount of castles I've built. And those two were only 'cause I was Isabella before BtS nerfed her siege units.

 

[GenocideBringer]

That's actually what I do. I beeline for Astronomy. The research time is made up by the fact that

1) I can spread my religion to them before the AI gets to

2) I can trade resources/techs with them before any of the civs on my continent

3) I get a massive commerce boost.

 

[Tennyson]

Personally I think the biggest problem with castles is that they obselete so early.

I agree completely.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

For me it's not so much that they obsolete so early it's also that they are only available to build for a short time anyway, the Engineering=>Economics timeline is pretty short, plus you first need walls to build them. Being protective and/or having stone makes the a fair choice but only for coastal or frontline cities IMO.

 

[GenocideBringer]

With aggressive AI they are excellent. It becomes nearly impossible to bombard your defenses down, really important when Monty or Shaka wants to pay you a visit.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

With aggressive AI they are excellent. It becomes nearly impossible to bombard your defenses down, really important when Monty or Shaka wants to pay you a visit.

Amen to that! Since they changed the way bombarment works they's saved me ass a couple of times now. They can buy you at least 5 turns for reinforcements depending on their siege unit numbers.