Armies and Culture Flips

Razing is not better that capture in many cases!! this is your inexperienced and limited view of the game. you just have to learn when the choices apply.

In some cases, I might raze a city depending on my strategy, but in most cases I have a better choice available to me.

This is a strategy game. Part of the strategy is to learn what cities you can take in what manner and how to hold them if necessary.

The options other than capture and razing include:

bomb them into the stoneage (not much better than razing)
capture and starve (still not much better)
capture, starve, and repopulate (agressive but still not much better)
capture and harvest (hey, now there's an idea)
capture, harvest, and abandon
capture and rush to hold
capture and patrol nearby
capture, suppliment with a forward city, then abandon
(most capture strategies need the territory to heal or advance)

razing almost always gives up some of the initiative, very few examples show any position advantage to razing

other that capture, you can:

clamp them and squeeze them
sometimes flip them yourself (but the distance equation usually does not favor you)
cut them off an bypass them.
cut them off and bomb them into the stoneage and leave them

there are many options.

Tassadar,

The only reason for focusing on what you have been saying is because it's totally absolutely untrue. You have no proof, you have no experience. You have no credible data. You have no replicable sets of multiple examples. Spreading this disinformation just perpetuates a lack of understanding an may mislead others.

I am not focused on you as a person. There may be maturity of language barrier issues here that make things harder, but the only issue is your deliberate choice to foster infomation that is just plain garbage that conflicts with the existing set of facts. Just because you do not like something and do not want to understand it, does not license you to become the new high priest or high priestess of cuture flipping rants.

Mad bomber's post that the only way to eliminate most of the CF risk is to eliminate the civ quickly is very true. This is one of the reasons the hidden respawning feature was such a bad feature of the early games.
 
What false information i give ?

And about those captured city, i told you it give only 1 gold per turn and it cost several hundred gold to improve it, so i dont see any adventages here. When i wage war, i have already about or more than optimum city, so each newly city add corruption to my core, so i dont see any adventages here again.

And about what you call my lack of experience i will say to you, i will answer with the mouth of my cannon:) if we ever play a game together. Beleive me i wont give you a chance to kill my wonderful army of panzer with a cultur flip, i promise you.;).
 
Its OK if you don't agree with us, but DO NOT INSULT US!!!

Your replies to Tassador in particular are Haughty and are quite rude!! We are NOT A.I.'s, If you can't contribute in a positive manner please do not contribute!

Your claim that Tassador has no proof, that his claim is not credible is based on???? There are numerous examples of ABSURD culture flips, Tassador's is not even the worst!!
Do we all have to post saved games to consider examples credible?

Oxymandius has stated our position quite clearly, we Know that culture flipping happens & when it happens to a city that should flip (a city near the captured civ's capitol or one just captured) its an irritant, nothing more. But when a city flips that HAS NO EARTHLY REASON TO FLIP, that is when we get angry. Also we don't WANT to be FORCED into commiting GENOCIDE. What lessons are FIRAXIS & SID teaching the YOUNGER GENERATION?

Culture Flipping is a great idea, but is poorly executed!

BTW you can always turn off the respawning feature.
 
Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Its OK if you don't agree with us, ... What lessons are FIRAXIS & SID teaching the YOUNGER GENERATION?

Some people just learn slower than others! ;) :)
 
My experience (Regent / Monarch) is to place as many units as population in the newly captured city. That has prevented CF for me. This assumes, of course, that you've already quelled the resistors, which generally requires a 2:1 ratio if you want to turn-quell.

I also use the worker/settler/starvation method of bringing down the captured city, creating entertainers only. At least until I destroy the enemy, at which time there is no worry of CF from the defeated civ.

Is this not what others are doing?
 
That is the prefered method, but why should we be forced to do this. I try to play CIV in a moral way ( well except for the Nukes :nuke: ) but this is not possible unless you want cities to flip back to their origional owner.
 
Mad Bomber ty, but i dont care about his insult, when he begin to insult someone it mean he have no more argument to defend himself. Pretty strange and weird for a supposidly expert who publish in war accademy. He didnt give a single good reason why to keep an a.i. city, while i gave several good one for razing it. I guesss he had a conscience problem. You know i am 38 year old and i am a gamer since i have 25, so i think my experience in gaming is pretty good, i played civ 3 since it realease at almost full time because i took 3 year off work do do what i like, while some poeple here still sit on a scool bench, It explain some maturity difference between member;) it is funny, i am use to this kind of psychological war.

Wait for multi player, we will see which is better, capture or raze, beleive me no one will risk to loose several units to a flip agaisnt a human player. Those who like to play honorable will also have to change their strategy, this is what i expect from mp.
 
Originally posted by Tassadar

Wait for multi player, we will see which is better, capture or raze, beleive me no one will risk to loose several units to a flip agaisnt a human player. Those who like to play honorable will also have to change their strategy, this is what i expect from mp.

Razing has many advantages, though you would be wrong to suggest that it is required in order to conquer. However, I fear you may be right that razing may be the "best" game option. But that's nothing new.

Spock, I found that evil usually triumphs. Unless good is very, very careful. -- Dr. McCoy, U.S.S. Enterprise
 
You know Zachriel, i have a few very good reason to capture a city, especialy on emperor ( hard to get wonder).

Here my reason to capture, i want and i need magelan expedition, i like too much carrier+bomber and naval warfare. so my first target in industrial age is this wonder if i dont get it. Maybe smith trading too and that s about it. Most of the reaserch have been done so copernic and newton college are no more needed. New luxuries and ressource can be taken with your own settler but not a usefull greatwonder.

On regent level, i got the wonder i want most of the time so i dont need too capture at this level.
 
I don't believe less troop has a higher chance of flip too. If anyone has a save to proof that. Then, POST IT! Please do not claim your illusion as a fact unless you can actually prove it.

Anyway, it is easy to hold on to the AI city without flip if it does not flip for the first 10 turns of captured.

garrison = (overlap + foreign)*2
Just reduce that number to 1 and you get a flip-free new city.

Overlap is usually zero for AI city. They do not like overlap. So, rushing a cultural building will do the trick.

Foreign can be easily reduce to one by starvation and building workers (buy them if neccessary, they cost only 40 gold to rush). Then regrow the city, adding your workers if necessary and have also reduce your maintenance, since all the new foriegn workers are FOC. I usually end up with a few hundred foriegn workers doing this.

Benefits
You can to keep all the improvements which could include marketplace, bank, aquaduct, hospital, harbor, factory etc.
You get FOC workers to replace your workers and hence reducing you worker maintenance to ZERO.
You get to keep your reputation.

And the bad side> some planning and micro management is necessary. And the risk of flip exist before the tasks are completed.

And no culture flip possibilty if done correctly since it is almost the same as you building a brand new city save for one foriegn citizen, which can be easily suppress with 2 garrison.
 
Qitai
"Please do not claim your illusion as a fact "

I don't think it is right for you to call people liars. I have moved troops out of a city to prevent a flip. Since there is no money at at stake why would you doubt someone's experience. No matter how much you have played this game or how much you think you know, but with a million people playing this game all sorts of stuff can happen that you will never experience.
 
Originally posted by Ozymandius
Qitai
"Please do not claim your illusion as a fact "

I don't think it is right for you to call people liars. I have moved troops out of a city to prevent a flip. Since there is no money at at stake why would you doubt someone's experience. No matter how much you have played this game or how much you think you know, but with a million people playing this game all sorts of stuff can happen that you will never experience.

Yes i agree with you OZY, i was irronic with my statement that removing unit prevent cultur flip( which in fact seem thrue:lol: ), so who think posses sufficient omniscience to attack other reputation ?
 
Qitai, your information is right on track with the general game play concepts. Rushing the the first culture building is usually the biggest issue in my experience as well.

Unfortunately, we have a small but vocal and misinformed minority in the Tassadar gang. Screaming and jumping up and down won't change the need for basic skills.

With respect to who's being truthful or not, when someone posts things as fact and then is greeted by some fairly sound counter experiences but then goes on to scream the same false garbage again, and again, and again, then the problem has to be something bigger.

I editted out what was originally posted here because it was inappropriate. but it just shows my frustration with the lunatic fringe. I am one of the vocal and focused critics of some of the things Firaxis should look to fixing in future Civ permutations but most of these CF rant threads just degrade into needing someone to intervene with the lockout button and hack and hew with the edit buttons to avoid all the false information.

It's frustrating because this is not standard behavior among the 2,000 or so active members of the discussion forums.
 
Well, post a save to prove what you claim then. I have seen too many false claims like AI getting an advantage in battles and such too many times.

I do speculate about how some aspect of the game work too. But never have I claim what I speculate to be absolute truth unless I can prove it.

And so far, no one has prove it. And yet, it is treated by some as absolute truth. Please keep the illusion to yourself and stop polluting others. If you can prove it, then you have my apologies. Until then, please stop the knowledge pollution.

Civilization advancement is build on experimental confirmation, not pure speculation. Many years ago, many people claims that the world is flat without confirming. The truth-seekers do not believe them and embark on a journey to discover the truth. The self-deluded people sits there claiming over and over again that the world is flat.
 
Sure we are going to start saving after each single units move, save after each combat, save again after rush built a temple and so on. so i will have about 50 save per turn* by 540 turn in a game. sure i will begin right away just for you.

You know nobody is perfect, but when several member here and at apolyton talk about same experience than what it is, a wolrd conspirancy agaist cultur flip:lol: or a possibility in the game.
 
Well, the same thing happen when everyone says the world is flat.

You just need to differentiate the difference between a speculation and a proven fact.

I have no qualms about your speculation. And in fact you could be right. But claiming it as a fact before proving it is a completely different matter. I call this knowledge pollution.
 
And yet, with the masses of people experiencing this, no one is able to post a save? I have to wonder if this is just a vocal minority or the majority.
 
Originally posted by Qitai
And yet, with the masses of people experiencing this, no one is able to post a save? I have to wonder if this is just a vocal minority or the majority.

As i said quitai, it is almost impossible to save after each units move or combat ( becaus random seed change according to cracker and some other, which i agree with them).

So there is a formula to help prevent CF but there is a ramdom seed too, which we have no control on it.

Do you realy like to stack 20 units in a city size 3 to prevent flip ? if you think it worth the cost it is your choice, but me i dont think so.

Some poeple love CF while other hate it, we will never agree totaly, it is a matter of preference.
 
Originally posted by Qitai
Well, post a save to prove what you claim then. I have seen too many false claims like AI getting an advantage in battles and such too many times. .....


Why should we bother to post a save, there are too many examples, from many different people to call our claims false.
If one person is stating something, take it with a grain of salt. If ten are saying it then you have a right to be skeptical, but when a hundred are saying it then I believe there has to be a kernal of truth to it. When an absurd flip occurs THE LAST THING WE ARE GOING TO DO IS SAVE THE F***ING GAME! Next time it happens though I will be sure to get a screen shot just for YOU! As for garrisoning cities I do not have a large eough army to put 36 units in each city, so that is a no go. & My army is busy conquering other cities, I give a city one reprieve, after that I raze it!
 
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