Armies captured in culture flips?

[yu173023]

Can't seem to find a specific answer to this in any of the other threads about culture/city flipping---If you capture a city with your own army and leave it in that city, will it (your army) then be completely captured by the other city if it flips back to the city's original civ for cultural reasons?
I've heard of entire stacks of units being turned over to the enemy in this way, but is it true of armies as well? I don't suppose it matters what type of army (i.e. MGL army vs. military academy army)?
I'm particularly concerned since my Swordsmen army doesn't seem capable of adequately quelling the resistors and I don't have any other units close by yet---the army captured London (size 7), but I've left it outside of the base just in case. It would be nice to know if I could leave it there to hold the base without it being captured/converted to the English.
Please give me some advice. Thanks!

 

[skunk]

No, the units aren't captured when a city flips. They're destroyed!

The formula works like this; one military unit can quell at most one resisting citizen per turn. Now, note that this is any military unit, so your swordsmen should work just as well as any other unit. As should your armies, but armies should count as the the number of units that are in the army, maybe plus one.

Anyway, you're never totally safe from culture-flipping. You can be reasonably safe by stacking lots and lots of units in the city though.

Hope this helps.

 

[alexman]

I think what yu173023 was asking was whether a city with an Army as garrison can flip. The answer to that question is yes.

Of course, the more units you have in the city, the less likely it is to flip, so the Army will reduce the odds of flipping.

 

[yu173023]

Thanks guys...so does that mean that the army will be destroyed (i.e. all three swordsmen in the army lost) if the city flips while the army is in it? I think the answer is yes based on what you've already posted, but just checking. Thanks again.

 

[Turner]

Yes, that's right. All units that are in the city are lost.

 

[Theoden]

Of course, the more units you have in the city, the less likely it is to flip, so the Army will reduce the odds of flipping.

Yes, but the more units you have the greater the losses if it flips. I would recommend not forifying the army in the city.

 

[TerraHero]

Actually culture flipping is one of the most anoying aspects of the game, u cna lose u're entire assualt army this way. 20unit stack of infantery waiting till i can combine em with armor, city flipped, no more def units to support my tanks. Needless to say i kinda got my ass wooped, so this raises the ancient discussion about culture flipping, can sum citizen destroy 20 Infantery? (this city ahd 12 Citizen)

 

[The Last Conformist]

Actually, it's possible to stuff enough troops into a city that it can't flip. From a War Academy article:

P=[(F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty) - G]/D

where:
P = probability that it will flip this turn
F = # foreigners, with resistors counting double
T = # working tiles under foreign control (out of the max of 21, no matter what the cultural boundaries are atm)
Cc = 2 if foreign civ has more local culture than you, 1 otherwise
H = .5 for WLTKD, 2 for disorder, 1 otherwise
Cte = Total culture of the foreign civ
Cty = Total culture of your civ
G = # garrison units
D = factor based on relative distance to capitals

Now reorganizing this gives the required garrison as:
G = (F+T)*Cc*H*(Cte/Cty)

As you can see there is a nice set of extra factors there. Now when you take a city Cc is likely to be 2 for a long while. And then there is the culture ratio. And this is a true ratio so it could be 1.1:1, 2:1, 5:1 depending on how much culture each of you has

The national culture factor is probably the reason why some seem to have no problem with culture flips and others do. Since if you have strong national culture, this value might be approaching 1/2, which can keep the garrison down at a 1:1 ratio. However, if conversley the AI civ in question has double your culture, you are going to need 4 units for every foreigner and tile to prevent a flip.

 

[anarres]

"Enough" can be a very large number though...

If the enemy has a significant cultural advantage over you, the garrison required to stop a flip could be as high as 50 to 100, or even higher!

FWIW I think an army counts as 1 garrison, not 1 per unit in the army.

 

[Gainy]

FWIW I think an army counts as 1 garrison, not 1 per unit in the army

I'm not sure about that, because when you garrison an army in a city, the units it holds count for military police... (the actual 'army' unit might do too, although i'm not so sure about that)

 

[Raio]

My comments:
1 - Is true that when a city flips the your units will be lost and not captured by the AI (less bad no?)
2 - When you are making one invasion campaign you should choose 1 of the 2 tatics: Keep the AI cities or abandon them and keep the remaining AI workers. If you keep cities, the risk of flip is always remaining until you complete destroy the AI Civ.

I recomend reduce city pop until 2 (in order to reduce the AI pop and after increase yours) if you choose keep cities. This way you will reduce the flip risk.
If your option will be raize the cities you can after re-colonize the AI continent, if you wish to.

Normally my tatics depends on my military size (if the cities flips several times and you have capacity to recapture them again - So what?) and the time game (if you are conquering to win you should not keep the cities...)

Only my oppinion

RR

 

[tomart109]

I believe an Army only counts as one garrisoning unit - when it's in your city, look at the bottom line of the city display, and see that it only has one happy face on it.

The equation for flipping is indeed nice, factoring in all those carefully weighted considerations, to get a flip percent chance. But then IMO, they blow their nice system away when ALL of your occupying units are completely destroyed in a flip. Not even nuclear attack kills everything (in this game.) I refuse to believe the townspeople, even with military remnants, can COMPLETELY DESTROY a large stack with Armies and all their equipment. Not to mention the rationales that made Lethal Bombardment such a difficult feat, up until c3c.

Look at Baghdad 2004 - it seems we Americans are being culturally nudged out, but what possible catastrophe would bury EVERY soldier (while leaving the city and inhabitants intact.) ??????

Come ON!!!!!! This should be changed in civ4.

 

[Gainy]

I believe an Army only counts as one garrisoning unit - when it's in your city, look at the bottom line of the city display, and see that it only has one happy face on it.

I said before, and i'll say it again, an Army counts as up to 5 garrisoning units Although that doesn't really matter, as 4 is the maximum amount of citizens (in an unmodded game) that would be contented by military police. I was unsure whether the actual army unit counts as military police, so I tested, and it turns out it does
Saying this, it might not be the same in Vanilla Civ/PTW. Although I see no reason why it shouldn't be...

 

[tomart109]

I believe an Army only counts as one garrisoning unit - when it's in your city, look at the bottom line of the city display, and see that it only has one happy face on it.

Correction!
I see now that there's one happy face for the Army itself, AND one for each component unit (up to the gov't type's garrison limit.)

Sorry!

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Correct. For military police duty, the army itself counts as one unit and each unit in the army count as an additional one. This has always been the case since vanilla. I see no reason to think it would be different for culture flipping or resistance quelling calculations.

 

[Masquerouge]

I remember my first Rise of Rome conquest, where my army of legionaries was flipped out in Sicilia.. arrraaaarrrrggh !
To prevent culture flip I usually attack civs with a weak culture. And I myself tend to always be the culture-leader in my games, so...

 

[plarq]

My exp: Once I captured Lyons, stored a tank and a Mech Infantry in it. It flipped, and I found there's only a Rifleman in it, the tank was destroyed.
Conclusion:When flipped, if citizens don't have the tech to maintain the most inferior type of the unit, it'll be killed(i.e: A modern armor was captured, and they don't have Motorized Vehicles tech). If they have tech , the captured one will become the highest rank they can support(i.e:A spearman will become a Mech Infantry!!!I flipped a rival and found the garrison is Mech Infantry that they can't build)

 

[The Last Conformist]

That's wrong. All units in the flipped city are destroyed, and a new defending unit is spawned for the new owners. I've not assertained exactly how the exact type is chosen, but I suspect it's the same algorithm as for determining drafting results (toughest defender that could be built in the city; in case of a tie, the cheapest of the tying units; if that too is a tie, the one first in the units list in the editor).