Arrgh, Limit of 5 National Wonders Costs Game

[OzzyKP]

So I'm playing a OCC as the Sidar and doing quite well. I have my city up to 71 population and I'm 1,000 points ahead of my closest competitor (on emperor with raging hordes and aggressive AI), plus I've just vassalized two of the five total other civs. So I'm doing pretty well but I want to finish this game off with a victory.

I start building towers for the mastery victory. I get the tower of alteration and elements finished and then it tells me I've reached my limit of 5 national wonders. (I've already built national epic, heroic epic, & bazaar of mammon). Crap. I figured it would be pretty remarkable if I pulled off a tower of mastery victory with only one city and very few mana nodes in my borders, but alas the limit of 5 national wonders killed this plan.

So instead I start saving up great prophets. Currently I'm AV so I can run sacrifice the weak (i.e. how I got to 71 pop). So I'm saving up the great prophets and I figure once I have 6 I'll switch to Order and rush out the Altar.

So I get my 6th prophet (I also have 3 great engineers saved too), switch over to Order and... can't build the Altar. The Altar counts as a national wonder too, and I've reached the limit.... GRRRR.

So my humble request is either to eliminate the national wonder ceiling for OCC games or put the towers and the Altar in a different category so they don't count towards the total.

 

[Cuteunit]

And here people argued with me that STW wasnt overpowered. 71 pop city you say?

 

[OzzyKP]

And without much in the way of resources. Just a lot of grasslands with farms (plus agriculture of course). And the city of a thousand slums and tower of complacency.

Sidar + Thousand Slums + Tower of Complacency + Sacrifice the Weak = Invincibility

Game Stats (just to brag):
71 Population
1206 Science per turn
1515 culture per turn
421 gold per turn
425 GPP per turn
121 base production (could be more if i was maxing production)
22 health, 77 unhealthy

World Wonders Built:
Aque Sucellus
Bone Palace
Catacomb Libralus (was bored)
Celestial Compas
City of a Thousand Slums
Code of Junil
Crown of Akharien
Eyes and Ears Network
Great Library
Guild of Hammers
Hall of Kings
Infernal Grimoire
Mines of Gal-Dur
Mokka's Cauldron
Nox Noctis
Pact of the Nilhorn
Shrine of Sirona
Song of Autumn
Soul Forge
Syliven's Perfect Lyre
Tablets of Bambur
The Dragon's HOrde
The Necronomian
Theatre of Dreams
Tower of Eyes
Tower of Complacency

Game was on Emperor, Raging Hordes, Aggressive AI, Permanent Alliances, Living World, No Tech Trading

Also for the record the Sidar world spell is kinda lame, I never used it. Though I can imagine its importance for MP or if the AI uses it.

 

[ShadowDrgn]

One of the tips in game says that there is no limit on the number of national wonders you can build in a city. Guess that's a lie!

 

[xienwolf]

There is no limit in normal. But when you go for One City Challenge option you are limited to 5.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

There is no limit unless you are using one city challenge. Firaxis decided that in BtS OCC games should have higher limit of 5 instead of the normal limit of 2, so they added a new limit to the global defines. I think that Kael reused his old GlobalDefinesAlt.xml when he moved to BtS, so it doesn't override this newly added tag.

I would recommend adding this to C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2 030\Assets\XML\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml to get rid of the limit:

	<Define>
		<DefineName>MAX_NATIONAL_WONDERS_PER_CITY_FOR_OCC</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>-1</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>

 

[Mewtarthio]

I would recommend adding this to C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\FfH2 030 MagisterMod\Assets\XML\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml to get rid of the limit:

Shouldn't that be C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2 030\Assets\XML\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml?

 

[OzzyKP]

Well if there is no limit in the regular game there is even less reason to have a limit in OCC's. Hopefully this'll be fixed in the next patch.

I went ahead and opened the world builder and removed two of my towers so I could finish the altar. Did the whole thing in a turn or two!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Shouldn't that be C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2 030\Assets\XML\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml?

I suppose you are right. There isn't much point in you manually adding it to my modmod, since it is already there.

 

[xienwolf]

I almost made fun of you for that one, but couldn't figure out a way to word it that didn't just sound petty

 

[Mesix]

So I'm playing a OCC as the Sidar and doing quite well. I have my city up to 71 population and I'm 1,000 points ahead of my closest competitor (on emperor with raging hordes and aggressive AI), plus I've just vassalized two of the five total other civs. So I'm doing pretty well but I want to finish this game off with a victory.

I start building towers for the mastery victory. I get the tower of alteration and elements finished and then it tells me I've reached my limit of 5 national wonders. (I've already built national epic, heroic epic, & bazaar of mammon). Crap. I figured it would be pretty remarkable if I pulled off a tower of mastery victory with only one city and very few mana nodes in my borders, but alas the limit of 5 national wonders killed this plan.

So instead I start saving up great prophets. Currently I'm AV so I can run sacrifice the weak (i.e. how I got to 71 pop). So I'm saving up the great prophets and I figure once I have 6 I'll switch to Order and rush out the Altar.

So I get my 6th prophet (I also have 3 great engineers saved too), switch over to Order and... can't build the Altar. The Altar counts as a national wonder too, and I've reached the limit.... GRRRR.

So my humble request is either to eliminate the national wonder ceiling for OCC games or put the towers and the Altar in a different category so they don't count towards the total.

You can also get a Sidar city to a massive population without Sacrifice the Weak. Building adepts/deciples that automatically gain exp is the key. When they reach 26 exp (level 6) you can turn them into a shade (i.e. one free GP). Since Great Merchants produce one extra food, this is an unlimited supply of food in the mid to late game.

It works much better when you have multiple cities, but with enough production, you can crank out units every turn so it should still be a viable strategy on OCC. With the appropriate civics and the first 6 Altar levels complete, your deciples can come out with 17 exp, only 7 away from being +1 food/+6 gold.

In the early game I use the shades for Great Sages or Great Engineers to increase my research and my production.

edit: You can also take advantage of the early religious units for extra shades. They will abandon you when you switch religions, so it's better to find a use for them. If you run each of the early religions for a little while, you can crank out their heroes (or at least one of them). You can use the hero and the added benefits of the religion until you are ready to change. By then, the hero should have enough exp to become a shade.

 

[OzzyKP]

Eh, Engineers or Scientists are more useful. But a few great merchants are good just so I can run 100% science. Also, I don't really have the patience to wait till adepts get to 26 XP. And once they do they are kick ass mages anyhow. I've found it is much easier to just declare war on everyone and cut down their stacks as they try to assault your city. It works and it is fun.

I've got 18 Great Sages, 7 Great Merchants, and 10 Great Engineers.

 

[Cuteunit]

Oh the silly things people can do when they exploit the AI's foibles.