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[Funak]

With Japan having their bushido reworked from the vanilla bushido, does that mean that their passive %dmg when injured stacks now with the autocracy tenet?

I thought that Autocracy tenet was removed. I'll have to admit that I'm nowhere near an expert in autocracy but I can't even find it in the civpedia

 

[Legen]

The old effect of Elite Forces was replaced by "+15 xp when a military unit is created and all military units gain 50% more experience from combat". Technically, it stacks...

 

[vyyt]

Hi Funak,

tu_79 has compiled a nice write-up about religion here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14321211

We are now discussing the active religion spreading mechanics. Do you know if missionaries can convert only non-believers or if they can convert believers of rival religions in foreign cities to some extent as well? I think they can, but I do not know the numbers or it exactly works.

Thanks!

 

[Funak]

Hi Funak,

tu_97 has compiled a nice write-up about religion here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14321211

We are now discussing the active religion spreading mechanics. Do you know if missionaries can convert only non-believers or if they can convert believers of rival religions in foreign cities to some extent as well? I think they can, but I do not know the numbers or it exactly works.

Okay, this is the deal with Religious pressure from what I've gathered, it got very little to do with actual followers, and saying things like a missionary will convert X followers is very misleading.

Unless I'm mistaken here, which is quite possible as I've never bothered doing any fact-checking on it, I only know that the ingame mechanics works out, cities collect religious pressure like a huge tank with no limit. Pressure from other religions doesn't overwrite existing pressure it just builds up along with it, the followers are then allocated according to the percentages of the total pressure in the tank that each religion has provided. For example if a 20 pop city have been influenced by 15 missionary uses from Christianity(15k pressure) and 5 missionary uses from Islam (5k pressure) the total pool would be 20k with Christianity holding 75% of that and Islam 25%, which would result in 15 followers of Christianity and 5 followers of Islam.
On top of missionaries, nearby cities adds pressure to the pool every turn (which I believe is the same value as the number you'll see if you mouseover the religious symbol on the city) although it might be multiplied with something for all I know as with 5 pressure per turn it would take 200 turns to build up as much as one use of a missionary.

Besides this there seems to be a soft-cap of pool pressure that you need to reach for every follower (I have no idea of the number here), which is why cities without competing religions don't always have 100% followers of the religion it's following.

As you probably see, with every used missionary the next one is going to bring less impact, if you already have a pool of 20k another 1k is only a 5% increase while if the pool is just 1k another 1k is a 100% increase. This means as the game goes on missionaries start feeling a lot less useful, you can still use them to tip the balance slightly, but that's all there is to them. Inquisitors and Great prophets on the other hand removes all foreign pressure from the pool completely, which gives you gigantic swings later on. Other than that, the only thing I know of that removes existing pool-pressure is the Reformation belief 'One World, One Religion' which makes missionaries remove foreign pressure when used, although I don't know if it's a numerical or a percentage value that gets removed.

 

[Glidergun]

I think the reason that early cities will have not-quite-all of their citizen be religious is that cities also have a pool of "atheist" pressure. I believe that this is 100 per citizen born while the city has no majority religion. Thus, for a size 10 city with no pantheon or religious pressure, a single use of a missionary (without loss of generality, a Buddhist one) will give it 1000 Buddhist pressure and 1000 atheist pressure, ending up with 5 atheist citizens and 5 Buddhist citizens. This will be exactly enough for it to count as a Buddhist-majority city, at which point all future citizens will add Buddhist pressure to the city as they are born.

 

[Funak]

I think the reason that early cities will have not-quite-all of their citizen be religious is that cities also have a pool of "atheist" pressure. I believe that this is 100 per citizen born while the city has no majority religion. Thus, for a size 10 city with no pantheon or religious pressure, a single use of a missionary (without loss of generality, a Buddhist one) will give it 1000 Buddhist pressure and 1000 atheist pressure, ending up with 5 atheist citizens and 5 Buddhist citizens. This will be exactly enough for it to count as a Buddhist-majority city, at which point all future citizens will add Buddhist pressure to the city as they are born.

Also a possible solution. Could also mean that my suggested soft-cap is 200 pressure per citizen/follower. In the end it makes fairly little difference, although my suggestion fits with the fact that a city can lose its religion if it grows to quickly, which I've seen happen.

 

[Magean]

Hi Funak.

What do you think is a good way to maximize value from Persia's UA while playing aggressively ? A never-ending golden age is easy to achieve when playing a tall turtle, but with an aggressive playstyle I'm not sure.

 

[tu_79]

Also a possible solution. Could also mean that my suggested soft-cap is 200 pressure per citizen/follower. In the end it makes fairly little difference, although my suggestion fits with the fact that a city can lose its religion if it grows to quickly, which I've seen happen.

I always thought a new citizen is born atheist. If pop growth is bigger than pressure, that's what happens.

 

[Funak]

Hi Funak.

What do you think is a good way to maximize value from Persia's UA while playing aggressively ? A never-ending golden age is easy to achieve when playing a tall turtle, but with an aggressive playstyle I'm not sure.

Not really sure what to say here besides making sure you build the unique building, the artist guilds and as many GA-related wonders as you can.
There are some other cheesy ways to acquire GAP, like going for a faith-heavy setup, picking Apostolic Tradition and One world, One religion and spamming missionaries all over the place. I have not tested that strategy in a while but it used to be bananas.

I always thought a new citizen is born atheist. If pop growth is bigger than pressure, that's what happens.

You do realize that in practice there is absolutely no difference between this and what I suggested, right?

 

[Magean]

Not really sure what to say here besides making sure you build the unique building, the artist guilds and as many GA-related wonders as you can.
There are some other cheesy ways to acquire GAP, like going for a faith-heavy setup, picking Apostolic Tradition and One world, One religion and spamming missionaries all over the place. I have not tested that strategy in a while but it used to be bananas.

Thanks, I'll see how it goes.

 

[Magean]

Something weird happened. I reached the Atomic era and got multiple free units next to my capital : riflemen and machines guns. They just appeared there. I checked my policies and wonders, but saw no explanation.

Another thing : how can Venice be competitive for world projects ? As they can't build them in their puppets, how the hell did they get 2700 hammers for Wargames in three turns ? I was about to DoW Venice, waited for the world project Wargames to be over as I was sure I would won and all my relevant cities were set to building them, and lost to Venice, with only 2200 hammers. That was a major hindrance to my plans

 

[Funak]

Something weird happened. I reached the Atomic era and got multiple free units next to my capital : riflemen and machines guns. They just appeared there. I checked my policies and wonders, but saw no explanation.

I'm going to go off on a whim and guess that you had vassals.

Another thing : how can Venice be competitive for world projects ? As they can't build them in their puppets, how the hell did they get 2700 hammers for Wargames in three turns ? I was about to DoW Venice, waited for the world project Wargames to be over as I was sure I would won and all my relevant cities were set to building them, and lost to Venice, with only 2200 hammers. That was a major hindrance to my plans

Puppets do automatically work world projects afaik, but they only ever switch production when they finish their current queue (unless that changed since I last played them). That's the one thing I can think of anyways.

 

[Magean]

Nailed it ! I had my first vassal ever, Greece. Speaking of which : I declared war to Venice and was told right after the DoW that I had granted the Greeks their freedom. They didn't even revolt, it wasn't their turn anyway. I see two possibilities :
-Alex and Dandolo were friends
-I had promised Dandolo not to attack he when I complained about me troops being too close, which labeled me a oath-breaker and perhaps relieved Alex from his vassalage.

EDIT : in fact, they are even at war with me...

 

[Funak]

Nailed it ! I had my first vassal ever, Greece. Speaking of which : I declared war to Venice and was told right after the DoW that I had granted the Greeks their freedom. They didn't even revolt, it wasn't their turn anyway. I see two possibilities :
-Alex and Dandolo were friends
-I had promised Dandolo not to attack he when I complained about me troops being too close, which labeled me a oath-breaker and perhaps relieved Alex from his vassalage.

EDIT : in fact, they are even at war with me...

I think that's a known bug, I haven't experienced it, but I think I've read about it somewhere.

 

[Magean]

I think that's a known bug, I haven't experienced it, but I think I've read about it somewhere.

This is... annoying. It doesn't occur every time you DoW while having a vassal, I hope ? I'll better read more about the conditions. Meanwhile, I'll just RP this and pretend Alex took advantage of my broken promise to secede.

 

[Funak]

This is... annoying. It doesn't occur every time you DoW while having a vassal, I hope ? I'll better read more about the conditions. Meanwhile, I'll just RP this and pretend Alex took advantage of my broken promise to secede.

No idea, as mentioned I haven't experienced it so I haven't really bothered reading about it.

 

[Magean]

Something we talked about in the thread I had started a couple weeks ago... About the trade-off growth vs specialists. I've taken the habit of filling every cultural specialists slots, as many scientists as possible, then engineers and finally merchants. In that order. Sometimes cultural specialists and scientists leave me with little food surplus and my cities take 50 or so to reach the next citizen (that happen in the late game, when all my cities are at least of size 20 and have lots of specialists slots), and when for some reason I lose food, they starve and I have to remove a specialist.

Do you have some sort of threshold regarding time necessary to grow the next citizen ? Not a hard cap, but just a clue that you're fielding too many specialists.

 

[Funak]

Do you have some sort of threshold regarding time necessary to grow the next citizen ? Not a hard cap, but just a clue that you're fielding too many specialists.

Gut feeling. If your city has more tiles to work, you want it growing, and giving up on all growth to work specialists isn't worth it.

 

[Myrrdin_Emrys]

Well do you any advices about religions beliefs ?
I'm speaking about "normal" religions beliefs not pantheon/founder/enhancer/reformation.
I always value belief that gives building heavily. If i went for tradition and/or have an strong civ focused on great people i sometimes take mastery (+2 yield for specialist) else i always pick buildings.
And even in building i always pick the same : Pagoda (incredibly powerfull +2 to all yield minimum and +2culture/faith every other building give at most +3 faith/+3 something else, pagoda gives you at least +4faith/+4culture/+2 everything else.... and often +6/+6/+4). Plus pagoda are never picked by AI i dont know why. I know i didnt take in count the other effect that all other building get, but for me it's a minor bonus (resistance to assassination or stuff like that). If i play agressiv civ i tend to pick order+pagoda. if i want tourism or dont know what to take i go for pagoda+stupa (+5faith/+4tourism on architecture) and rarely i take pagoda+mosque (+3faith/+3science).
Maybe one time or two i took order+ 1 gold per 2 citizens for very early agressions but that pretty all. I never take anything else.

Did i miss something ? Do u have any advices ?
Is that normal i find pagoda so powerful ?

thx in advance

 

[Funak]

Well do you any advices about religions beliefs ?
I'm speaking about "normal" religions beliefs not pantheon/founder/enhancer/reformation.
I always value belief that gives building heavily. If i went for tradition and/or have an strong civ focused on great people i sometimes take mastery (+2 yield for specialist) else i always pick buildings.
And even in building i always pick the same : Pagoda (incredibly powerfull +2 to all yield minimum and +2culture/faith every other building give at most +3 faith/+3 something else, pagoda gives you at least +4faith/+4culture/+2 everything else.... and often +6/+6/+4). Plus pagoda are never picked by AI i dont know why. I know i didnt take in count the other effect that all other building get, but for me it's a minor bonus (resistance to assassination or stuff like that). If i play agressiv civ i tend to pick order+pagoda. if i want tourism or dont know what to take i go for pagoda+stupa (+5faith/+4tourism on architecture) and rarely i take pagoda+mosque (+3faith/+3science).
Maybe one time or two i took order+ 1 gold per 2 citizens for very early agressions but that pretty all. I never take anything else.

Did i miss something ? Do u have any advices ?
Is that normal i find pagoda so powerful ?

thx in advance

The pagoda looks fairly strong initially, but it does severely fall off later on when the effects of the other buildings start kicking in. Like for example the +20% culture during golden ages is a lot more powerful later on than the pagoda is.

When it comes to beliefs there aren't really any beliefs that are downright terrible, depending on the situation or the victory-type you're going for they all have their uses.