Assainations

[Colonel]

Basically as the title implies, I want that ability to order the assaination of foriegn officals to disrupt some part of the government.

For example if I order the assaination of the Defense Advisor(Secrtary of Defense) it would throw the military in to disarray
or if I took out the Economic Advisor it would somehow throw money generation, science and luxury spendings would be suspeneded for awhile.

Most importantly is this, Assasinating the Leader which would throw all areas into disarry, virtual anarchy

Now we must deal with the problem of what to do if you(the player) is assaisinated, well there is the obvious, it could just end the game, as you the omnipresent King of sorts is dead. Or the more viable option of simply a screen popping up, saying what is your new name, title, and so on. Also noteing that if the AI gets assainated, they will need a list of names to run from, for example England, say it is Queen Victoria, she gets killed Elizabeth or Victoria II or something to that effect.

When you or an AI order the assaination their will be a little popup which asks sort of like a spy would ask in Civ2, do you want to do this covertly or semi openly(more chance of discovery. You would pay so much money dependant on which type of government you are and which type of government they are. Also the anarchy and choas which would ensue after any assaination wether it be Advisor or Leader the anarchy or disruption would last for so many turns dependant on that nations government, so for Democracy it might be one turn(better succesion VP SoH so on) but a Dictatorship would be say 10 turns those being the extremes and every other government somewhere in between.

Also of course this idea has its basis in real world. think Harold Hardradia, Franz Ferdinand, or Ceasar, the ability to cause massive global war from one person's death.

I hope everyone can understand this.

 

[ForbiddenPalace]

I think if under Republic, Communism or Democracy, if the king unit is assissinated, your empire will suffer from civil disorders. But under Feudalism, and Mornach, you will lose the game. I think it will be pretty hard for spy units to sneak into other nations territory because of the national border.

 

[Colonel]

Feudalism and Monarchy have a more stable defination of succesion of power though, In an actual communist state, wars and total disorder have been caused, but Monarchy usually has some Royal Family member to take over.

 

[rhialto]

Any 'assassination' that ends the game would make that government type impossibly weak to play with.

And most of the other targets you describe are the responsibility of more than one person, so short of blowing up entire departments nationwide you wouldn't get that serious an effect.

Consider that Italy's most senior intelligence type person was recently offed. There's still a huge network under him that can continue.

 

[dh_epic]

I think this might be a neat espionage feature. Nothing game ending, but some kind of action that slows production or the economy or the military and so forth...

 

[JG99_Korab]

I think it is really weird

 

[JG99_Korab]

by the way DH epic. Dayton is awesome city

 

[dh_epic]

Thanks man. Right back at you -- I almost forgot Poland.

 

[JG99_Korab]

YOu know, I lived in Dayton for 10 years. then florida for 2 then dayton for one more then Poland for 3

 

[JG99_Korab]

Thats because I am american.lol

 

[Kosez]

Closest thing to assassination we had, I believe, in one of CivII`s scenarios, with assassin units. They just destroyed the unit without suffering any damage. And sound was really cool.
But I don`t think ordering an assassination would fit in Civ.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, that reminded me of a suggestion I made a while back about making assassination and bribery of 'Leaders' an extension of the Intelligence system.
The way it would work is that, if one of your great leaders was assassinated, then you would immediately lose ANY benefit he/she gave you-even if said leader had already been 'sacrificed' for a benefit (like wonder rushing, for instance). Assassinating a nations leader may cause a name change in your leadership, as well as forcing you to renegotiate some major diplomatic agreements with other nations (not trade or RoP deals, but perhaps alliances and MPP's). Another possibility is that it CAN be a possibility for civil war or rebellion-but only if your nation is already 'close to the edge' in that regard.
Lastly, bribing advisors means that those advisors give the player FALSE advice, and leak information in their area to the enemy (thus giving the 'enemy' a bonus to his espionage rating in that specific area).
If a player fears that one of his advisors has been 'tainted' (your military officer keeps GROSSLY underestimating the military strength of that other country a LITTLE too often) then you can PURGE that advisor from your cabinet. It might also be possible to bribe Great Leaders, but I don't really know what effect that would have in the game!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Idylwyld]

Making Assassination a new espionage mission would be neat. I'm not sure how you would model the assass of the leader but if you could assassinate the "advisers" all sorts of effects would fall in. Assassinate the Military adviser and, in addition to not having him available for a few turns for advice, no units can be upgraded. Assass the Economic adviser and the current spending settings are "locked" until a new one is named. Assass the Foreign adviser and all current trades are cancelled. Assass the cultural adviser and no culture is accrued. Make naming a new adviser a five turn ordeal. And, now that I think about it assassinating a leader would force a government shift with all the normally occurring penalties (anarchy for x turns), wouldn't work as well against the religious civs but that seems right.

 

[Princeps]

I think if under Republic, Communism or Democracy, if the king unit is assissinated, your empire will suffer from civil disorders. But under Feudalism, and Mornach, you will lose the game. I think it will be pretty hard for spy units to sneak into other nations territory because of the national border.

NO, many Roman emperors were assasineted did the empire fall after one assasionation, no...

So like I hav suggested before monarchies should have dynasties. Every dynasty would be different in the level of effieceny.

So after assasination the dynasty could change and when dynasties change there could be a civil war.

 

[sir_schwick]

Most governments have a clear plan of succession except for those eccentric super-leaders who believed in Darwinistic politics(Ghengis, Alexander, etc.).

I do like the idea of assassinating advisors, giving them a 5-turn penalty in some sector, although stopping culture is ridiculous.

Assassinate Cultural Advisors(multiple people would be offed) - All 'ancient' buildings would only generate normal culture instead of double. Any new buildings would not generate culture until new advisorate is assigned. Resistance halved in occupied cities.

Assassinate Foreign Advisorate - No diplomatic envoys or contact for the five turns. All deals put on temporary hold until new advisor is chosen.

Assassinate Key General(vs. a battlegroup) - Battlegroup operates at reduced efficiency for 1 turn.

Assassinate Intelligence Heads - No new intelligence programs for 4 turns.

Assassinate Leader - Doubles number of unhappy and happy faces in each city and you cannot add entertainers or change happiness slider for 5 turns. This option could be used against yourself if you are a really happy civ, say during a war so you got lots of extra happy faces.

Assassinate 'Pentagon' Officials - Cannot upgrade units or implement new(from technology gained) units for 5 turns.

Assassinate Scientific Leadership - Science bar will generate no beakers after 40% on the tax slider for 5 turns.

Assassinate Economic Advisorate - Tax bar will generate no gold after 40% on the tax slider for 5 turns. Stock market effectiveness cut in half.

Assassinate Antagonists - This cane be done for yours or anothers antagonists. Will reduce agitation in non-committed followers of the agitator, but increase zeal of die-hards for 5 turns and lowers overall zeal for a time after that. Blame will be assumed upon nation who is being antagonized, so it might be a good way to send an enemy to the brink. Use on your own agitators if you can afford the short-term problems.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Assassinate Cultural Advisors(multiple people would be offed) - All 'ancient' buildings would only generate normal culture instead of double. Any new buildings would not generate culture until new advisorate is assigned. Resistance halved in occupied cities.

Seems fine.

Assassinate Foreign Advisorate - No diplomatic envoys or contact for the five turns. All deals put on temporary hold until new advisor is chosen.

May be a little harsh. Perhaps you would be unable to have that helpful disembodied head telling you exactly what the other guy's thinking present a the negotiation? Of course, there would have to be some limit to the number of times you could request a deal for this to have an effect, and the other guy will know about it and try to take advantage of you by demanding exhorbitant prices.

Assassinate Key General(vs. a battlegroup) - Battlegroup operates at reduced efficiency for 1 turn.

What's a battlegroup? And aren't you the head general (or Field Marshal, depending on country) of your army? At first I thought 1 turn seemed a little weak, but then again, I suppose nobody could afford having poor fighters for five turns during a massive war. It all depends on how much reduced the efficiency is.

Assassinate Intelligence Heads - No new intelligence programs for 4 turns.

How would you be able to counteract this? It seems that, in most cases, the target would immediately try to find the spy before he's extracted (assuming that you will be able to extract spies in this game), but here the attacker will be able to spy you to death at his leisure.

Assassinate Leader - Doubles number of unhappy and happy faces in each city and you cannot add entertainers or change happiness slider for 5 turns. This option could be used against yourself if you are a really happy civ, say during a war so you got lots of extra happy faces.

A bit unrealistic. If President Bush died right now, do you think that all Republicans would throw a party while the Democrats would tear at their sackcloth and ashes, screaming "Georgey! You shall be avenged!" And can you imagine any leader saying "Hm, I'm a pretty bad ruler. Could you do the country a favor and shoot me?"

Assassinate 'Pentagon' Officials - Cannot upgrade units or implement new(from technology gained) units for 5 turns.

Seems balanced. The only problem is that you'd have to time it so that the official died right as the enemy gained a new tech or it'd be useless.

Assassinate Scientific Leadership - Science bar will generate no beakers after 40% on the tax slider for 5 turns.

Seems fine.

Assassinate Economic Advisorate - Tax bar will generate no gold after 40% on the tax slider for 5 turns. Stock market effectiveness cut in half.

Also seems fine.

Assassinate Antagonists - This cane be done for yours or anothers antagonists. Will reduce agitation in non-committed followers of the agitator, but increase zeal of die-hards for 5 turns and lowers overall zeal for a time after that. Blame will be assumed upon nation who is being antagonized, so it might be a good way to send an enemy to the brink. Use on your own agitators if you can afford the short-term problems.

One word: martyrdom. If a dissident is more valuable as a symbol for the cause than as a strategist, assassination will do much more harm than good.

 

[sir_schwick]

What's a battlegroup? And aren't you the head general (or Field Marshal, depending on country) of your army? At first I thought 1 turn seemed a little weak, but then again, I suppose nobody could afford having poor fighters for five turns during a massive war. It all depends on how much reduced the efficiency is.

I guess you have been out of this forum for a little while. A battlegroup is a term many of us toss around when referring to army-like stacks. Many CFCers would like all combat to be between stacks(they should be limited in size of course). While a variety of opinions exist on the topic, battlegroups would differ from armies in that they are free and can be utilized instantly.

How would you be able to counteract this? It seems that, in most cases, the target would immediately try to find the spy before he's extracted (assuming that you will be able to extract spies in this game), but here the attacker will be able to spy you to death at his leisure.

Once again this assumes that intelligence operations are more about forward planning and infiltration than gold reserves. Also, these are some of the hardest guys to kill period. They are not in the limelight and know how the intelligence and spy games work. One spy for a country seemed ridiculous, so hopefully that will be fixed.

A bit unrealistic. If President Bush died right now, do you think that all Republicans would throw a party while the Democrats would tear at their sackcloth and ashes, screaming "Georgey! You shall be avenged!" And can you imagine any leader saying "Hm, I'm a pretty bad ruler. Could you do the country a favor and shoot me?"

I am changing this effect to: doubles the number of happy and unhappy faces each city gets. That means effects that are counter-acted by police units, etc. are not forgotten. Also, you cannot increase the luxury tax past its current point for the turn the leader is assassinated.

Interesting thinking, but overall Americans are happy(in Civ terms at least). That means the assassination creates a martyr which will greatly increase patriotic zeal for a time. If a country that used tons of military units for happiness had a leader assassinated(junta), then all those unhappy faces would be much more than the current militia could suppress. The role of the player is little-defined, but it is definitely not a single leader or even government. You survive revolutions and do not die, so must not be a mortal man/woman. So the guy who is being shot is not you, but you worked your will through him(sorta like God).

One word: martyrdom. If a dissident is more valuable as a symbol for the cause than as a strategist, assassination will do much more harm than good.

That is true, which is why there is a 5-10(haven't decided yet) turn phase where dissention is double. However after the fever pitch period, the overall zeal(amount) of the movement is reduced. Its a great way to cause trouble in other countries and is sometimes necessary for you to do to prevent a movement that is to difficult to stop once it has grown stronger.