Attack C3B now?

[magnusmarcus]

I wonder why the Pres voted against it?

It is my understanding that Emp believed we could still work out an alliance...

 

[classical_hero]

It is my understanding that Emp believed we could still work out an alliance...

I cannot believe he still wanted to deal with them. War was the only option, it just depended upon who would have declared first. Maybe his ties, when he was C3B Ambassor go to him to much.

 

[RegentMan]

Well, when you're an ambassador to a nation for, what, four terms, then I can see how he might have voted no. He was their friend as they were his. He just couldn't see the situation clearly through this shroud of friendship.

 

[Cheetah]

And we can, with our shroud of hate?

 

[magnusmarcus]

And we can, with our shroud of hate?

Embrace your hatred..... I know I have.

 

[Cheetah]

Everyone has once thought as you do. You do know the *power* of the Dark Side, we *must* obey our warlust.

 

[Matrix]

Well, when you're an ambassador to a nation for, what, four terms, then I can see how he might have voted no. He was their friend as they were his. He just couldn't see the situation clearly through this shroud of friendship.

That would be just crap! They

deceived us! if Emp can't see that he shouldn't be president!

I can't believe that would be the reason. He's not that stupid.

 

[magnusmarcus]

I can't believe that would be the reason. He's not that stupid.

ok lets not get personal.....I disagree with Emp but hes entitled to his opinions....Even if they are wrong.

 

[Rik Meleet]

This is Moderator Rik posting this message

Matrix; please control your emotions.

I had a chat with our President yesterday after the turn was played. I assume our President voted after the turn and for a very good reason. According to him this poll wasn't opened long enough for the declaration of war to be legal. I am no rules expert but I think he has a point.
I did explain to him that many on our forum saw the timing perfect. I got the impression he felt it was also perfectly timed. But that doesn't mean that perhaps this is an illegally declared war. (Illegally to our constitution, not to the ISDG as a whole).

In that light I think it is brave of him to not be drawn like most of us down the path of "laws are just words" but staying on the path of justice. Like I want my president to do; laws first. His vote might not neccesarily depict his opinion on whether the time to declare war was wise -in game- but as a signal to us that there are rules to obey.

 

[Goonie]

Noble man that Napoleon.

 

[RegentMan]

Hmmm... didn't realise that. Good memory, Emp.

 

[Matrix]

Good point.

(Where did I show emotions?)

 

[Provolution]

Utter non-sense. We voted for a war in the war poll, backed by the grand strategy plan which got a 70 % majority. We followed the constitution to the letter. Rik interpreted the war poll as to call for the final get-go based on what many of us said. I and others voted a conditional war within five turns, by fine-tuning the war initiation to military movements and the closure of the building of Forbidden Palace. Heck, we even talked about turn 135 way back. So voting No on this poll does not give me any last minute respect for constitutional conscience. The only no I would recognize as an understandable choice, would be to extend one more turn, so that we could maximize the gains of GA with the FP conclusion. Both EMP and Classical Hero should know this was our very last chance to use our inferior Javelin Throwers against a soft target, in a not so target-rich environment. Classical Hero may have gambled on them not disbanding their warrior moving ahead next turn, a gamble I may understand judging on Brazucan pathological behavior.

I would not even question Riks handling here, backed by grand plan poll, war poll with condition to start in the next five turns. We national security people could call this a Stockholm Syndrome of sorts, emphathizing with the enemy in the most critical time.
They said no negotiations whatsoever, so the last hope for peace was utterly gone.
I am respectful of democracy, but I am shocked over that "No" won as many votes as they did. Any politcally correct constitutional jibber does not hide the fact we followed the consitution to the letter.

1. Grand plan polled
2. War plan polled
3. Best turn time repoll , following five turns past warpoll.

and yes, I am enough rules expert to state that we by any kind of democratic rule, we have not even been close to overriding the Will of the People. However, the very turn (based on the same democratic anarcho-syndicalist overkill), has effectively snuffed out the Stockholm Syndrome, lack of strategic direction, the long term wuzziness of our former state ideology and finally snuffed out our artificial restraint for the posterity of this game. Now, still feel free to post fifth-columnist votes, I won't.

I think I read both Nos before I polled, but I am not quite certain.

 

[classical_hero]

That would be just crap! They

deceived us! if Emp can't see that he shouldn't be president!

I can't believe that would be the reason. He's not that stupid.

Unfortunately he is blinded by that close friendship he had with them. Unfortunately he does not see that they lied so many times when we were "friends", that are no longer trustworthy. They used and abused us, so it is there turn to fell what it feels like. Lets drive them to the ground.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I am no that longer that angry about the poll, so it is time I got rid of all this mystery about my vote

13 for, 2 against. One of the two was our own president.

It is my understanding that Emp believed we could still work out an alliance...

Well, when you're an ambassador to a nation for, what, four terms, then I can see how he might have voted no. He was their friend as they were his. He just couldn't see the situation clearly through this shroud of friendship.

Like have said before, and I will say again: I will never vote for war with C3B, I am Pro-Alliance. I strongly believe that an alliance with C3B was at least possible before we attacked them.

I know C3B better than anyone in CFC, and I KNOW an alliance could have been reworked out. All we needed to do was work with them closer. This would not bring us friends, but an ally that would help us. We could have a 100% sure way to the finals this way. But I will not argue that much about it, as it will never happen now.

About the Constitutionality of the poll: This war was illegally declared. It must have been open for at LEST 48 hours, not the approximate 10 hours it was open. The Constitution says that the time rule must be upheld, regardless of the majority for or against it. Also, I would have liked to present my case to the people, but I could not due to the small amount of time this was open. Since however, this was announced to C3B too soon, we cannot take it back.

Either someone jumped the gun on declaring war, or someone gave an unauthorized order.

I would like for the Justice of the Court to investigate this matter and to do a full investigation. However, I will leave it up to him if he will act on the person (or people) responsible for this goof up. It is not my duty to say if they will be prosecuted or not, it is the Justice’s job. Personally, I do not think it will be a good idea to remove anyone from any office because we are at war, and I like the team we have

 

[Goonie]

Can you resend the turn now please?

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Can you resend the turn now please?

I did!

 

[Provolution]

This is a reference to the Stockholm Syndrome, just so I get my sources in order.

Stockholm Syndrome describes the behavior of kidnap victims who, over time, become sympathetic to their captors. The name derives from a 1973 hostage incident in Stockholm, Sweden. At the end of six days of captivity in a bank, several kidnap victims actually resisted rescue attempts, and afterwards refused to testify against their captors.

While some people are suggesting the recent Elizabeth Smart kidnapping sounds like a case of Stockholm Syndrome, the most famous incident in the U.S. involved the kidnapped heiress Patty Hearst. Captured by a radical political group known as the Symbionese Liberation Army in 1974, Ms. Hearst eventually became an accomplice of the group, taking on an assumed name and assisting them in several bank robberies. After her re-capture, she denounced the group and her involvement.

What causes Stockholm Syndrome? Captives begin to identify with their captors initially as a defensive mechanism, out of fear of violence. Small acts of kindness by the captor are magnified, since finding perspective in a hostage situation is by definition impossible. Rescue attempts are also seen as a threat, since it's likely the captive would be injured during such attempts.

It's important to note that these symptoms occur under tremendous emotional and often physical duress. The behavior is considered a common survival strategy for victims of interpersonal abuse, and has been observed in battered spouses, abused children, prisoners of war, and concentration camp survivors.