Automated workers are bad...why exactly?
- Thread starter Gary4Civ
- Start date
eris
King
Automated workers will develop tiles in a manner and order less than optimum for a given city, especially if you have ideas of what city tiles you want worked.
Automated workers can be set to remove forests or not. If removing forest, they may remove more than you intend, they may remove more production capacity than you can afford. If you set them to not remove forest you lose the value of a well time strategic chop.
The road building algorithm has problems. A blocked path can lead to more tiles than needed to connect to squares. Since it costs gold per turn, that un-needed expense is hateful to most of us. They will build long roads to connect cities that you intend to connect via harbors. More unwanted cost,
Their worst habit is walking up to the border of a warzone to put in that one last section of road or something. Not only does it get captured, the AI tends to destroy them and you can't get them back.
And then there is building roads to City States. I have to come to the conclusion that I never want my workers to fulfill that request.
Automated workers can be set to remove forests or not. If removing forest, they may remove more than you intend, they may remove more production capacity than you can afford. If you set them to not remove forest you lose the value of a well time strategic chop.
The road building algorithm has problems. A blocked path can lead to more tiles than needed to connect to squares. Since it costs gold per turn, that un-needed expense is hateful to most of us. They will build long roads to connect cities that you intend to connect via harbors. More unwanted cost,
Their worst habit is walking up to the border of a warzone to put in that one last section of road or something. Not only does it get captured, the AI tends to destroy them and you can't get them back.
And then there is building roads to City States. I have to come to the conclusion that I never want my workers to fulfill that request.
kk1000
Chieftain
I might turn them on after the heavy lifting has been done though. After railroads and most tiles are improved, I may send them out only to improve the marginal tiles or newly acquired tiles.
Derpy Hooves
Grand Inquisitor
Never turn it on, if you have too many workers and know it would only make a marginal difference if you let them make specific improvements just kill them, you'll get back GPT and you won't have to deal with the incredibly dumb decisions they make. Once I get to railroad era I usually have enough new workers from conquering to let them do the constructing and then once again kill the whole lot.
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
automated workers base priorities on numerical factors without the ability to consider situational ones. so if you have 2 resources - iron and spices - your automated worker might build 3 random roads then the plantation on spice then 2 trading posts - then demolish them and build farms over them and finally, go mine the iron.
ok, so this is an extreme example, but when you have 5 cities and however many workers you have at this point, it is better to rest or delete them or add them to your army to use as pawns for a war. they will build what you might not need and give you maintenance cost increases when if you build your own improvements you might find you only need 8 road tiles for all of your cities + 5 total mines + 6 total farms + all trading posts for one city and the rest on specialists... so, control your workers and control your costs.
ok, so this is an extreme example, but when you have 5 cities and however many workers you have at this point, it is better to rest or delete them or add them to your army to use as pawns for a war. they will build what you might not need and give you maintenance cost increases when if you build your own improvements you might find you only need 8 road tiles for all of your cities + 5 total mines + 6 total farms + all trading posts for one city and the rest on specialists... so, control your workers and control your costs.
Thanks again. It feels like a daunting task controlling all those workers but I have to accept your (collective) wisdom.
Is there any kind of rule of thumb for how many workers you should have? Maybe based on number of cities, or...anything? It seems like the worker issue is the hardest part of Civ for me so far.
Is there any kind of rule of thumb for how many workers you should have? Maybe based on number of cities, or...anything? It seems like the worker issue is the hardest part of Civ for me so far.
About one per city is what I shoot for early on.
Managing workers really isn't that hard, and when they finish their current task and pop back into the 'unit waiting for orders' queue it's a good time to assess your cities, take account of growth, figure out if you're optimally working tiles, etc.
Generally I have a big list of things for them to do early on with pretty clear priorities based on my strategy. By mid-game I've managed to do all the most important things and get my road network up and then I start deleting them, leaving one or two for emergency use. Unless I'm warmongering, in which case I keep an army of workers right behind my real army to trading post everything after puppeting.
Managing workers really isn't that hard, and when they finish their current task and pop back into the 'unit waiting for orders' queue it's a good time to assess your cities, take account of growth, figure out if you're optimally working tiles, etc.
Generally I have a big list of things for them to do early on with pretty clear priorities based on my strategy. By mid-game I've managed to do all the most important things and get my road network up and then I start deleting them, leaving one or two for emergency use. Unless I'm warmongering, in which case I keep an army of workers right behind my real army to trading post everything after puppeting.
King of Prussia
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2011
- Messages
- 280
I keep about 1 worker per City until after railroad. Then I will lower the number to 1 for every 3 cities or so. Depending how big my empire is.
Gort
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,518
Whenever I turn automated workers on I just find them building trading posts on absolutely everything. This isn't what I like to happen.
Ideally I'd like to be able to set up the AI myself - stuff like "IF LESS THAN TWO FOOD ON TILE BUILD FARM" or "IF NEXT TO RIVER BUILD FARM". Then I'd be okay with automation.
Ideally I'd like to be able to set up the AI myself - stuff like "IF LESS THAN TWO FOOD ON TILE BUILD FARM" or "IF NEXT TO RIVER BUILD FARM". Then I'd be okay with automation.
in options you can choose to have automated workers NOT replace existing tiles. later in the game when you have chosen all the farms/lux/mines, etc. that you need you can automate them for dead tiles like desert and tundra and not worry about them replacing something. it took me a few games to know that was in the options menu, haha.
apocalypse105
Deity
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,705
They build way to many rouds and in the late game way to many railrouds you only need a few railrouds at you're production cities
thadian
Kami of Awakened Dreamers
i keep one per city, and about 3 cities early. if i build up to 5 cities then my first 3 workers suffice unless i have a lot of improvements i need to build.
if i don't get around to workers until later, then i try to get 4-5 or so, but i always intend for any worker number over 3 to be sacrificed as a combat pawn. the AI likes attacking workers so i send in a few when im at war. if im defending, many AI will chase a worker all over the map instead of attacking me and if im attacking i can pull defenders with workers.
when i capture enemy workers, i IMMEDIATELY delete them asap so that the unit is absolutely gone. i do the same in mp.
late game, with a one-track road system you can convert 5 cities worth roads into railroads pretty quickly with 3 workers or so. if i stagnate at my third city which usually happens, then i get my 3 workers and every time i capture an AI city, i puppet it then i send in 3 workers to re-develop their plots and REMOVE ROADS I DO NOT NEED OR WANT which saves me money. then, if i want to annex it, i already have a correctly improved city even if no buildings.
those same 3 workers will go to every city, one at a time with my army to build roads ahead of or behind my troops so that when i capture a city i can have it connected pretty quickly. if i find my empire has nothing real for 3 workers to do then i go to war - if i find my empire has too much for 3 workers to do, i slow down everything and focus on defensive building.
if you monitor the pace of how much work is left in your territory for your workers to do on a basis of 1 worker per city, then you can estimate if you are advancing at a viable pace.
Hammer - the button does not say "build smart improvements in places where they operate on a min/max basis and appropriately consider how many farms/trade posts/specialists a city will WANT to work given its location, size and room for growth. a city might be intended to be size 12 with 4 farms, 6 posts, 2 scientists for example. but the AI doesn't know how to think like that, it doesn't look at a city and have the worker specialize it. now, if you could tell a worker to specialize one type of improvement -
or tell a worker "automate luxeries/strategic resources only" or "build one-lane roads to connect cities only" that would fix it well.
if i don't get around to workers until later, then i try to get 4-5 or so, but i always intend for any worker number over 3 to be sacrificed as a combat pawn. the AI likes attacking workers so i send in a few when im at war. if im defending, many AI will chase a worker all over the map instead of attacking me and if im attacking i can pull defenders with workers.
when i capture enemy workers, i IMMEDIATELY delete them asap so that the unit is absolutely gone. i do the same in mp.
late game, with a one-track road system you can convert 5 cities worth roads into railroads pretty quickly with 3 workers or so. if i stagnate at my third city which usually happens, then i get my 3 workers and every time i capture an AI city, i puppet it then i send in 3 workers to re-develop their plots and REMOVE ROADS I DO NOT NEED OR WANT which saves me money. then, if i want to annex it, i already have a correctly improved city even if no buildings.
those same 3 workers will go to every city, one at a time with my army to build roads ahead of or behind my troops so that when i capture a city i can have it connected pretty quickly. if i find my empire has nothing real for 3 workers to do then i go to war - if i find my empire has too much for 3 workers to do, i slow down everything and focus on defensive building.
if you monitor the pace of how much work is left in your territory for your workers to do on a basis of 1 worker per city, then you can estimate if you are advancing at a viable pace.
Hammer - the button does not say "build smart improvements in places where they operate on a min/max basis and appropriately consider how many farms/trade posts/specialists a city will WANT to work given its location, size and room for growth. a city might be intended to be size 12 with 4 farms, 6 posts, 2 scientists for example. but the AI doesn't know how to think like that, it doesn't look at a city and have the worker specialize it. now, if you could tell a worker to specialize one type of improvement -
or tell a worker "automate luxeries/strategic resources only" or "build one-lane roads to connect cities only" that would fix it well.
